Author Topic: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY  (Read 9951 times)

Offline gingyguy

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #135 on: July 15, 2019, 02:02:31 PM »
So it's over?
i wonder if thats how it works
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Offline TimT

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #136 on: July 15, 2019, 02:07:25 PM »
i wonder if thats how it works
She had a special רשעות. We'll see if her replacement has the same fighting attitude.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #137 on: July 15, 2019, 02:33:26 PM »
[/b]

This is the biggest issue imo. Our organizations seem to be accommodating to the lowest common denominator, so effectively they are defending a cause (i.e. close to zero secular studies) that their core constituents don't agree with.

Obviously, at the point we are now, basically all yeshivas are under attack, especially since most have a four day week for secular studies.

It seems to me that a tiny percentage of yeshivas are dragging the entire system through this, and if those yeshivas would've shaped up 5 years ago when the issue first came up, we wouldn't be where we are today.

I think therein lies the problem. In broader strokes is the bigger question here do we defend the rights of private schools to control their curricula. Or do we attack the handful of Yeshivas that are giving the rest a bad name?

I think it is much easier of Yeshivas of disparate hashkafas to band together (as they have, along with non-sectarian and other faiths' private schools) to fight government intervention in their curriculum than it is to get them to band together to root out the bad apples.

What leverage do they have? Do we really think that getting Torah Vodas  and Yeshiva of Flatbush and their hashkafic buddies together to tell Bobov to teach more Secular studies that it will actually make an impact?

Offline yr

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #138 on: July 15, 2019, 03:00:08 PM »
I think therein lies the problem. In broader strokes is the bigger question here do we defend the rights of private schools to control their curricula. Or do we attack the handful of Yeshivas that are giving the rest a bad name?

I think it is much easier of Yeshivas of disparate hashkafas to band together (as they have, along with non-sectarian and other faiths' private schools) to fight government intervention in their curriculum than it is to get them to band together to root out the bad apples.

What leverage do they have? Do we really think that getting Torah Vodas  and Yeshiva of Flatbush and their hashkafic buddies together to tell Bobov to teach more Secular studies that it will actually make an impact?

I see your point, and it's hard to disagree.

But 5 years ago I wouldn't call it attacking. This whole issue was going on well before any lawsuits were filed, yaffed was founded more than 5 years ago. The Chasidim could've been told that the government will come after you if you don't start teaching something minimal. Instead, the response was to portray the whole thing as an attack on all yeshivas, which it's wasn't, until a year ago.

But all that is rehashing what was. In the present, it is an attack on all yeshivas, so the options are much more limited, and banding together is probably the best option.

Offline stooges44

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #139 on: July 19, 2019, 01:37:09 PM »
Dear Parents, Grandparents, Alumni and Friends:

As we wrote in our email last week, it is urgent that you comment (if you have not already) to the New York State Board of Regents about the proposed education regulations, irrespective of the Commissioner's resignation.

We are including a new, informative message from Rabbi Chaim Dovid Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America:


Dear Friend,
 
You may have heard that the New York State Education Department recently published proposed Regulations about “substantial equivalency of instruction” required for students attending nonpublic schools.

This can have severe ramifications for yeshivos and day schools across the board in NYS, so we wanted to provide some answers to common questions we are receiving about this serious development.
 
Q: How might the proposed regulations affect my child’s yeshiva?
A: The Regulations, on their face, may require schools to make major adjustments to their limudei kodesh and secular programming.

For example, the proposed regulations specify 1) the number of required hours – as many as 4-5 hours per day, depending on grade level; 2) more than 12 required subjects, including, at the lower elementary level, consumer and family science, visual arts, theater, media arts, career development, occupational studies, etc.; 3) assessment of teachers to an undefined standard.

Results, grades, competencies, graduation rates, or other factors regarding equivalency to public schools are not taken into account for these purposes.

To view the proposed Regulation click here.
 
Q: Didn’t the court already strike down the SED Guidelines 3 months ago?
A: Yes, those Guidelines were thrown out by the NY State Supreme Court in response to lawsuits brought by Agudath Israel, PEARLS, Torah Umesorah, and other groups. However, the court struck down the Guidelines because the State Education Department failed to comply with the technical requirements for new rulemaking. By publishing its “proposed Regulations” in the NYS Register, SED has now started an “official” process in compliance with those requirements.
 
Q: How do the new proposed Regulations differ from the previous Guidelines??
A: The new Regulations are substantially identical to the previous Guidelines.
 
Q: What happens now?
A: There is a sixty day public comment period (until September 2) when individuals can voice their concerns regarding these proposed regulations. At the conclusion of the process, the Regulations come before the Board of Regents for a vote, expected this fall.

 Q: I heard that State Education Commissioner Elia resigned on Monday. Does that mean this is over?
A: No. The impact of Commissioner's Elia's resignation on this issue is still to be determined, but the proposed Regulations have already been published and the comment period is in place.
 
Q: What is being done to fight for parents who choose, and sacrifice dearly, for their children to attend yeshivos?
A: The Agudah has been working with organizations in the community - PEARLS and Torah Umesorah, among others - to oppose the newest incarnation of the state's attempt to control yeshivos. It should be noted that the Catholic and NYSAIS independent schools (which, together with Jewish schools, form the majority of nonpublic schools in NYS) also strongly oppose these regulations.
 
Q: Is there anything I can do?
A: Yes! SED is required, by law, to read comments submitted. While many have previously signed petitions, which is important, these comments are required to be read by law. We have set up a system, where, with just a few clicks, you can voice your opinion on this critical matter.


Q: I live in Chicago, but the overreach of these regulations concerns me. May I register my comment?
A: The regulations do not restrict comments to NYS residents.
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Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #140 on: July 19, 2019, 02:09:12 PM »
Interesting,

 I read the link to the abstract of the proposal - https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/register/2019/jul3.pdf - I couldn't find anything about there being a time requirement. I read the requirements:
Quote
o during grades 1 through 6, mathematics, including arithmetic, science, and technology; English language arts; social studies; the arts; career
development and occupational studies; health education, physical education, and family and consumer sciences. Instruction in these subjects may
be integrated or incorporated into the syllabus or syllabi of other courses;
o during grades 7 and 8, mathematics (two units of study); English
language arts (two units of study); social studies (two units of study); science (two units of study); career and technical education, wherein the unit
of study requirement may be initiated in grade 5 (one and three-fourths
units of study); physical education (similar courses of instruction to those
required in public schools pursuant to section 135.4 of this Title); health
education (one-half unit of study); visual arts (one-half unit of study);
music (one-half unit of study); library and information skills, which may
in incorporated or integrated into any other subjects (the equivalent of one
period per week in grades 7 and 8); career development and occupational
studies, which may be incorporated or integrated into any other subjects;
o during grades 9 through 12, instruction in English (four units of
study); social studies (four units of study); mathematics (three units of
study); science (three units of study); health (one-half unit of study); physical education (two units of study); the arts (one unit of study);


So what I think this means is:
From Grades 1 to 6: You need Math, Science, Social Studies, and English
From Grades 7 to 12:
- You need 5 years of math and science
- You need 6 years of English and Social Studies

I am under the impression that most Yeshivish schools ( Chofetz Chaim, Chaim Berlin, Torah Vodas, Torah Temimah) offer pretty much that - so how does this change the status quo?



Online yuneeq

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #141 on: July 19, 2019, 03:34:34 PM »
Interesting,

 I read the link to the abstract of the proposal - https://www.dos.ny.gov/info/register/2019/jul3.pdf - I couldn't find anything about there being a time requirement. I read the requirements:
So what I think this means is:
From Grades 1 to 6: You need Math, Science, Social Studies, and English
From Grades 7 to 12:
- You need 5 years of math and science
- You need 6 years of English and Social Studies

I am under the impression that most Yeshivish schools ( Chofetz Chaim, Chaim Berlin, Torah Vodas, Torah Temimah) offer pretty much that - so how does this change the status quo?

Your link mentions required units of study, which I see referenced in this link:
http://www.nysed.gov/common/nysed/files/programs/bilingual-ed/5-26-2015_unitsofstudyglossaryfinal.pdf

"Units of Study: Required number of minutes of instruction per week throughout the school year or the equivalent. One unit of study as per CR Part 100.1(a) means at least 180 minutes of instruction per week throughout the school year, or the equivalent."

I don't know how it all adds up, but I'm guessing they did the calculations and ended up at 4-5 hours.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #142 on: July 22, 2019, 09:31:19 AM »
45min x 4 per week = 180 min or 3 hours

Math, Science, Social Studies, English = 4x45, which is 3 hours per day or 12 hours per week total.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #143 on: July 22, 2019, 09:44:05 AM »
45min x 4 per week = 180 min or 3 hours

Math, Science, Social Studies, English = 4x45, which is 3 hours per day or 12 hours per week total.
Where do you get the requirements being 4x per week at 45 minutes per class?

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #144 on: July 22, 2019, 10:02:37 AM »
Where do you get the requirements being 4x per week at 45 minutes per class?

He said it in reverse, but 180 minutes a week can be split up to 45 minutes a day.
What I don't see is if 180 minutes/week works for Jewish school schedule, maybe with our holidays it comes out to fewer days and therefore more hours per day?

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #145 on: July 22, 2019, 10:05:12 AM »
He said it in reverse, but 180 minutes a week can be split up to 45 minutes a day.
What I don't see is if 180 minutes/week works for Jewish school schedule, maybe with our holidays it comes out to fewer days and therefore more hours per day?
For starters, I'm not sure why yeshivas don't teach 5 days of secular studies, other than cost. If they wanted to, they could either teach 1.5 hours each on Sunday or Fridays, or make a schedule with 2-3 hours on one of those days. 3 hours of secular studies in a Friday during DST is completely reasonable.

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #146 on: July 22, 2019, 10:09:38 AM »
For starters, I'm not sure why yeshivas don't teach 5 days of secular studies, other than cost. If they wanted to, they could either teach 1.5 hours each on Sunday or Fridays, or make a schedule with 2-3 hours on one of those days. 3 hours of secular studies in a Friday during DST is completely reasonable.

Ah yes, the Jewish school kids really need to sit in class an extra 3 hours a week, especially when it’s sunny outside. Then we just plug them into the wall and hope the robots are ready for school by Sunday.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #147 on: July 22, 2019, 10:25:02 AM »
Ah yes, the Jewish school kids really need to sit in class an extra 3 hours a week, especially when it’s sunny outside. Then we just plug them into the wall and hope the robots are ready for school by Sunday.
Or cancel school on Sunday?

The point is that schools are trying to argue that their 12 or fewer hours a week are equivalent in quality to 25 hours of public schools, which is a much harder case to make whe you teach 4 days a week instead of 5.

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #148 on: July 22, 2019, 10:27:18 AM »
Jewish kids go to school on Sundays? What days during the week do they have off? Saturday and any other days?
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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #149 on: July 22, 2019, 10:31:50 AM »
Jewish kids go to school on Sundays? What days during the week do they have off? Saturday and any other days?

Saturday, that's it.