Author Topic: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY  (Read 10368 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #150 on: July 22, 2019, 10:36:45 AM »
Saturday, that's it.
Ouch! What time they start/end each day?
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #151 on: July 22, 2019, 10:39:59 AM »
Ouch! What time they start/end each day?

Start - 9am

End -
Sunday - usually 1pm
Mon/Thursday - usually 4:30 pm
Friday - usually 12

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #152 on: July 22, 2019, 10:43:08 AM »
Jewish kids go to school on Sundays? What days during the week do they have off? Saturday and any other days?
The yeshivas in question teach Judaic subjects 6 days a week and secular studies M-TH for boys. Girls generally don't have school on Sundays.

More modern schools generally have both secular and Judaic 5x per week M-F, though even among those schools, some boys schools would follow a similar schedule regarding days per week (though by and large teach more secular studies per day - generally 4-5 hrs per day M-F and less on Fridays if they teach secular studies on Fridays.)

Offline aygart

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #153 on: July 22, 2019, 10:46:55 AM »
Start - 9am

End -
Sunday - usually 1pm
Mon/Thursday - usually 4:30 pm
Friday - usually 12
My boys have almost the same schedule on Sunday as the rest of the week including secular studies.
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #154 on: July 22, 2019, 10:47:27 AM »


45min x 4 per week = 180 min or 3 hours

Math, Science, Social Studies, English = 4x45, which is 3 hours per day or 12 hours per week total.

That's what it is currently. I think they are adding a whole slew of extra studies to teach which will add on more time.

Ah yes, the Jewish school kids really need to sit in class an extra 3 hours a week, especially when itís sunny outside. Then we just plug them into the wall and hope the robots are ready for school by Sunday.
Well said.


The yeshivas in question teach Judaic subjects 6 days a week and secular studies M-TH for boys. Girls generally don't have school on Sundays.



My sisters generally yeshivish girls school had secular studies on Friday, but no school sunday.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #155 on: July 22, 2019, 11:08:00 AM »
He said it in reverse, but 180 minutes a week can be split up to 45 minutes a day.
What I don't see is if 180 minutes/week works for Jewish school schedule, maybe with our holidays it comes out to fewer days and therefore more hours per day?

The number of total days in NY needs to match the state minimum of 180 days per school year. This, in part is why we wind up with busing nightmares of things like Columbus Day, Veterans Day, etc. 

Interestingly enough, most public school systems have a vacation give back schedule - i.e. if there are a lot of snow days, they chop off vacation days from winter or spring break. I've never seen a Yeshiva do it, although it would be pretty hard to end pesach early :)

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #156 on: July 22, 2019, 11:20:57 AM »
I think Yeshivas in the US fall into 3 basic formats:

- Modern Style day schools - (regardless of whether they're separate or co-ed) that intersperse Judaic and Secular studies throughout the day. So if there are two classes per grade, one class starts the day with Judaics, the other would start the day with Secular and then they switch midway through the day. There are many variations on this theme, but for the most part both secular and judaics teachers/rebbiem are full-time staff of the school. (for clarity, everyone starts the day with tefila, and then splits off). School is M-F, and Judaics and Secular are taught 5 days a week - even though Friday is a shorter day (9-1:30 vs 9-4:00)

- Yeshivish with serious secular studies - the morning hours are devoted to Judaic studies (9-1 or 2), and secular studies are taught in the afternoon. (2-4:30, 3-5:30) - there is a practical reason for this. The school hires secular studies teachers who teach in public or other private schools in the morning, and are looking to make some extra $$. The teacher benefits because they have a side job, the school benefits because they get qualified teachers at a lower cost. In this environment Judaics are taught either 5 or 6 days a week, and secular M-F (Sundays typically had a full judaics schedule, vs Fridays that had an abridged schedule)

- Chasidish/yeshivish without serious secular studies - I don't know much about the breakdown or how this is approached, but I do know that a lot of my friends who switched from those environments did so because the secular education wasn't taught seriously.


Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #157 on: July 22, 2019, 11:30:21 AM »
I think Yeshivas in the US fall into 3 basic formats:

- Modern Style day schools - (regardless of whether they're separate or co-ed) that intersperse Judaic and Secular studies throughout the day. So if there are two classes per grade, one class starts the day with Judaics, the other would start the day with Secular and then they switch midway through the day. There are many variations on this theme, but for the most part both secular and judaics teachers/rebbiem are full-time staff of the school. (for clarity, everyone starts the day with tefila, and then splits off). School is M-F, and Judaics and Secular are taught 5 days a week - even though Friday is a shorter day (9-1:30 vs 9-4:00)

- Yeshivish with serious secular studies - the morning hours are devoted to Judaic studies (9-1 or 2), and secular studies are taught in the afternoon. (2-4:30, 3-5:30) - there is a practical reason for this. The school hires secular studies teachers who teach in public or other private schools in the morning, and are looking to make some extra $$. The teacher benefits because they have a side job, the school benefits because they get qualified teachers at a lower cost. In this environment Judaics are taught either 5 or 6 days a week, and secular M-F (Sundays typically had a full judaics schedule, vs Fridays that had an abridged schedule)

- Chasidish/yeshivish without serious secular studies - I don't know much about the breakdown or how this is approached, but I do know that a lot of my friends who switched from those environments did so because the secular education wasn't taught seriously.
I agree. The laws are targeting group 3, but group 2 are being caught in the crosshairs. If group 3 didn't exist, nobody would care about the slighly lower standards in group 2.

Group 1 essentially meets the standard when counting Hebrew language as a secular studies.

Offline shapsam

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #158 on: July 22, 2019, 11:59:55 AM »
I agree. The laws are targeting group 3, but group 2 are being caught in the crosshairs. If group 3 didn't exist, nobody would care about the slighly lower standards in group 2.

Group 1 essentially meets the standard when counting Hebrew language as a secular studies.
This is not true. All groups are apposed to it including the Christian and Muslim schools.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #159 on: July 22, 2019, 12:42:50 PM »
I agree. The laws are targeting group 3, but group 2 are being caught in the crosshairs. If group 3 didn't exist, nobody would care about the slighly lower standards in group 2.

Group 1 essentially meets the standard when counting Hebrew language as a secular studies.

Based on my comments regarding the actual policy document, it would seem that group 2 would also qualify - albeit with a little creative accounting - i.e. Chumash qualifies towards history, and Gemara to Social Studies, and both qualify for foreign language.  Again - this is if the total is 12-15 hours per week as opposed to 20-25 hours per week. If it's 20-25 hours per week, even those in group 1 would have difficulty meeting the requirement.

This is not true. All groups are apposed to it including the Christian and Muslim schools.

A lot of independent schools are opposed to it, in part because its more quantitative than qualitative. It also puts the burden on the schools to do more time accounting in case they're subject to an audit. While it might be easy to see how any religious school would be opposed to time limitations, other schools that are not religious oppose it too - some of them have alternative methods of teaching or subjects other than the standard curriculum don't want the government interfering with their curricula either.

I imagine most schools would agree to a qualitative measure of their teaching (i.e. this % of students are required to pass statewide subject exams) vs. you must teach x number of hours of this subject per week. In the qualitative measures, those numbers should be driven by the public schools in their same district. Back in the days where everyone in NY was required to take regents, I'm sure that most Yeshivas had far higher averages than the overall Public School average (even if you throw out the cheaters).


Offline sguitarist18

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #160 on: July 22, 2019, 12:54:14 PM »
The question becomes how controlling  they're going to want to be in terms of the subjects taught.

And part of the reason everyone is against this is because it sets a bad precedent of being told not just what students have to know, but also what to teach, and how.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #161 on: July 22, 2019, 02:43:02 PM »
The question becomes how controlling  they're going to want to be in terms of the subjects taught.

And part of the reason everyone is against this is because it sets a bad precedent of being told not just what students have to know, but also what to teach, and how.

Exactly my point - which is why even some non-religious private schools are against it. The fight isn't as much about adequacy as it is about governmental control of private schooling.

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #162 on: August 22, 2019, 08:11:40 PM »
Thursday, August 22


Dear Parents of Yeshiva Darchei Torah and All Caring Yidden,

Look at the headline above; it appears on the cover one of our local Jewish newspapers today.

Dramatic, isn't it?

But it's real.

I am not a person who believes in drama and hyperbole where it is not warranted. But Klal Yisroel in the State of New York is in serious and imminent danger.

This is about a real and looming crisis facing every single yeshiva, Bais Yaakov and day school family in our state.

We sent out emails earlier in the summer about this, and many of you followed the prompts to make your voice heard in Albany. We thank you. Many of you did not. The deadline to submit comments on the NYS Education Department guidelines is Labor Day, Sept. 2 - just over a week away.

I urge you - I beseech you - stop whatever you are doing and make your voice heard, right now! This cannot wait.

Whether you are a yeshiva parent or not--
Whether you live in New York State or not--
Please submit the petition!

It's easy.
The repercussions of a negative ruling from Albany will, chas v'shalom, not be easy.

We rely, as always, on Hashem for our ultimate salvation in every crisis. But we dare not sit on our laurels. Inaction is not an option in this case.

Please, make sure that you and your spouse's voices are heard, and then forward this email to all of your relatives, close and distant, and urge them to make their voices heard as well.

The time is now.

Sincerely,


Rabbi Yaakov Bender
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Offline shapsam

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #163 on: August 23, 2019, 08:41:53 AM »

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #164 on: August 23, 2019, 10:13:56 AM »
What's the headline?

Thursday, August 22


Dear Parents of Yeshiva Darchei Torah and All Caring Yidden,

Look at the headline above; it appears on the cover one of our local Jewish newspapers today.

Dramatic, isn't it?

But it's real.

I am not a person who believes in drama and hyperbole where it is not warranted. But Klal Yisroel in the State of New York is in serious and imminent danger.

This is about a real and looming crisis facing every single yeshiva, Bais Yaakov and day school family in our state.

We sent out emails earlier in the summer about this, and many of you followed the prompts to make your voice heard in Albany. We thank you. Many of you did not. The deadline to submit comments on the NYS Education Department guidelines is Labor Day, Sept. 2 - just over a week away.

I urge you - I beseech you - stop whatever you are doing and make your voice heard, right now! This cannot wait.

Whether you are a yeshiva parent or not--
Whether you live in New York State or not--
Please submit the petition!

It's easy.
The repercussions of a negative ruling from Albany will, chas v'shalom, not be easy.

We rely, as always, on Hashem for our ultimate salvation in every crisis. But we dare not sit on our laurels. Inaction is not an option in this case.

Please, make sure that you and your spouse's voices are heard, and then forward this email to all of your relatives, close and distant, and urge them to make their voices heard as well.

The time is now.

Sincerely,


Rabbi Yaakov Bender