Author Topic: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY  (Read 13940 times)

Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2019, 12:06:35 PM »
Should this thread be merged with the Shlichus Addiction thread?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2019, 12:14:58 PM »
4/3
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2019, 12:17:36 PM »
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
You are somewhat clueless about the topic.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Menachem613

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2019, 12:17:58 PM »
LSATs, Regents... any standardized tests.

But very good. Make something mandatory. Don't shove a whole pie down our throats. Cleary 3 hours is enough. Dont make us do more. Maybe make the mandatory 2 hours and see how it goes. Chances are if they actually teach it those kids will be in at least the 80th percentile.

We all know that the government really has no  interest in this altogether but were forced to act when confronted with the facts that some boy’s schools do not teach any secular studies. Our focus should be on those schools that are attracting this unwanted attention rather than fighting on their behalf. 

Offline Dr Moose

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2019, 12:18:03 PM »
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
You're not learning about religion, you're learning religious studies such as the Talmud. Yes, there's a difference as the Talmud is very stimulating.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2019, 12:18:24 PM »
You are somewhat clueless about the topic.
Clueless on religion?  :P
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #46 on: July 12, 2019, 12:25:31 PM »
You're not learning about religion, you're learning religious studies such as the Talmud.
So is it half full or half empty.  ::)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline LoLo

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2019, 12:26:29 PM »
People are fine with them being "in" to get taxpayer money.

Quite simply, I think there should be a minimum standard for state money, and if is not met, that yeshiva should get $0.
Ahem, they all pay tax, and save the state a fortune by not using the public school system.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #48 on: July 12, 2019, 12:27:36 PM »
Clueless on religion?  :P

You're not learning about religion, you're learning religious studies such as the Talmud. Yes, there's a difference as the Talmud is very stimulating.

In addition, my kids don't study any religion, they study Science and Law and are taught important life skills. It is my choice that the Science and Law that my kids are taught are the Devine ones given to us over 3,000 years ago and endured all tests of time, rather than the man made versions that people want to force upon others.

We are about to celebrate the 12th of Tammuz. Which represents the victory of the freedom to educate our kids the way we have been doing for centuries, over the Bolshevik attempt at reeducating, which was deemed a worse option than jumping into a fire.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #49 on: July 12, 2019, 12:28:18 PM »
Ahem, we all pay tax, and save the state a fortune by not using the public school system.
You therefore have a right to receive a portion of education funding to be used for education. If it is not education by their standards then you may not have a right to that money.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #50 on: July 12, 2019, 12:28:59 PM »
In addition, my kids don't study any religion, they study Science and Law and are taught important life skills. It is my choice that the Science and Law that my kids are taught are the Devine ones given to us over 3,000 years ago and endured all tests of time, rather than the man made versions that people want to force upon others.
Is that you KAC?  :)
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #51 on: July 12, 2019, 12:30:38 PM »
Is that you KAC?  :)
Now it's my turn to be clueless.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2019, 12:32:35 PM »
Now it's my turn to be clueless.
“Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts.” — Kellyanne Conway AKA-KAC
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2019, 12:40:01 PM »
Ahem, they all pay tax, and save the state a fortune by not using the public school system.

I hate when people throw this argument around - while there's definitely validity to it, I think too many people treat it as an all or nothing proposition, it's not. Some examples:

- That money is in transportation dollars for kids who get busing to Yeshivas
- That money is in subsidizing Breakfast and Lunch in some poorer communities
- That money is in the special education services that kids with IEPs receive.

So while most Yeshiva-Heavy districts spend less on average for a Yeshiva kid in their district, they do still spend a lot, likewise, while a Yeshiva Parent that is a taxpayer probably gets less value than his neighbor who's kids go to public school, but is still getting value from their school taxes


Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2019, 12:40:28 PM »
You therefore have a right to receive a portion of education funding to be used for education. If it is not education by their standards then you may not have a right to that money.
Correct, the tax money is earmarked for schools. If you want it, make an approved school.

The "middle ground" would be something like 3 hrs per day. Secular studies from 230-530 isn't crazy.

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #55 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:51 PM »
Correct, the tax money is earmarked for schools. If you want it, make an approved school.

The "middle ground" would be something like 3 hrs per day. Secular studies from 230-530 isn't crazy.
An alternative middle ground we be results on various standardized test. If they can meet standards in less time all the power to them.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2019, 12:44:03 PM »
There are public schools that don't meet the minimum standard.
Do we close them down?  There's controversy over charter schools and they prove that they meet the standard.
Those schools get into hot water. There's not an entire system of schools that doesn't even attempt to teach students.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2019, 12:44:40 PM »
An alternative middle ground we be results on various standardized test. If they can meet standards in less time all the power to them.
Because there has never been regents cheating in yeshivas...

Focusing on test scores is also a terrible approach for educational reasons but that's neither here nor there.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 12:48:29 PM by shaulyaakov »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2019, 12:44:47 PM »
An alternative middle ground we be results on various standardized test. If they can meet standards in less time all the power to them.
So some kids should only have 30 minutes of religious studies while others should receive 4 hours?
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2019, 12:47:46 PM »
In addition, my kids don't study any religion, they study Science and Law and are taught important life skills. It is my choice that the Science and Law that my kids are taught are the Devine ones given to us over 3,000 years ago and endured all tests of time, rather than the man made versions that people want to force upon others.
To ExGingi's point - Gemara itself, fulfills several secular subjects:
- Critical Thinking  / Critical Literacy
- Law
- Discrete Mathematics (Logic)
- Although it's a stretch, it also teaches History (via aggadata) and Social Studies (i.e. forms of government, courts, social structure of second temple society)