Author Topic: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY  (Read 7549 times)

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2019, 11:35:27 AM »
I am all for improving the quality of Secular education, but think that some of these standards are a bit of overreach.

I and all of my siblings went to  Litvish Yeshivas/Bais Yaakovs (I, the black sheep, went to a Chabad HS, with a similar structure). For most of my schooling our Limudei chol was setup as follows:

- 2.5-3 hours a day
- Including Math, Science, History, English
- Nearly all of our teachers from 5th grade onward were state licensed, and had masters degrees. All of them taught the same subjects at public or other private schools in the morning.
- In HS, almost all of my Secular studies teachers had Masters or PhDs. About half of them also taught in local colleges.
- We all met or exceeded local and state standards.

By contrast, my kids are in more modern schools. The only key differences:
- There's a more balanced split between Chol and Kodesh (about 3.5 hours a day each in elementary school, vs about 4 hours each in HS).
- Based on the Judaic curriculum, my kids are about 1-2 years behind were their counterparts in more yeshivish schools would be (i.e. they start learning gemara in 6th grade as opposed to late 4th early 5th).
- While most of my Yeshivish friends college aspirations were CUNY or Touro at night, my kids' and their friends' aspirations are Ivies and State schools after their gap year.

So in order to meet this standard of 4.5 hours per day - even the most modern day schools would need to give up 1 hour of limudei kodesh in order to comply*.

I think a lot of the real complaints should be focused on Yeshivas that stop teaching limudei chol in 5th  or 6th grade altogether.  When I meet people who went to Yeshivas that taught nothing - I am a bit appalled. At the same time, there is a wide gap between nothing and 4.5 hours a day.

I wish the state would focus its efforts on quality rather than quantity. i.e. administering tests to ensure students met state standards.

*It's also possible, that modern yeshivas can use the amount of time focused on teaching hebrew as a language as part of this requirement which would help them over the hump



Offline gingyguy

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2019, 11:35:43 AM »
Because once they are "in" they can start imposing exactly what can be taught etc.
+1 . In laymans terms mind your own business
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Offline aygart

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2019, 11:38:53 AM »
I assume you are referring to the NYS Regents. What are the stats for Satmar boys?
What are the stats for financial success within Satmar?

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2019, 11:39:56 AM »
It have to do with my education, but I wasn't sure what day of the week it was today, well, thanks for clearing that up.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 11:44:08 AM by davidrotts63 »
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #34 on: July 12, 2019, 11:40:28 AM »


I assume you are referring to the NYS Regents. What are the stats for Satmar boys?
LSATs, Regents... any standardized tests.

But very good. Make something mandatory. Don't shove a whole pie down our throats. Cleary 3 hours is enough. Dont make us do more. Maybe make the mandatory 2 hours and see how it goes. Chances are if they actually teach it those kids will be in at least the 80th percentile.
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Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #35 on: July 12, 2019, 11:40:56 AM »
I am all for improving the quality of Secular education, but think that some of these standards are a bit of overreach.

I and all of my siblings went to  Litvish Yeshivas/Bais Yaakovs (I, the black sheep, went to a Chabad HS, with a similar structure). For most of my schooling our Limudei chol was setup as follows:

- 2.5-3 hours a day
- Including Math, Science, History, English
- Nearly all of our teachers from 5th grade onward were state licensed, and had masters degrees. All of them taught the same subjects at public or other private schools in the morning.
- In HS, almost all of my Secular studies teachers had Masters or PhDs. About half of them also taught in local colleges.
- We all met or exceeded local and state standards.

By contrast, my kids are in more modern schools. The only key differences:
- There's a more balanced split between Chol and Kodesh (about 3.5 hours a day each in elementary school, vs about 4 hours each in HS).
- Based on the Judaic curriculum, my kids are about 1-2 years behind were their counterparts in more yeshivish schools would be (i.e. they start learning gemara in 6th grade as opposed to late 4th early 5th).
- While most of my Yeshivish friends college aspirations were CUNY or Touro at night, my kids' and their friends' aspirations are Ivies and State schools after their gap year.

So in order to meet this standard of 4.5 hours per day - even the most modern day schools would need to give up 1 hour of limudei kodesh in order to comply*.

I think a lot of the real complaints should be focused on Yeshivas that stop teaching limudei chol in 5th  or 6th grade altogether.  When I meet people who went to Yeshivas that taught nothing - I am a bit appalled. At the same time, there is a wide gap between nothing and 4.5 hours a day.

I wish the state would focus its efforts on quality rather than quantity. i.e. administering tests to ensure students met state standards.

*It's also possible, that modern yeshivas can use the amount of time focused on teaching hebrew as a language as part of this requirement which would help them over the hump
They can use Hebrew language. I went to a centrist Modox (all boys) high school and Hebrew was the language.

Offline Yonah

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #36 on: July 12, 2019, 11:55:18 AM »
They can use Hebrew language. I went to a centrist Modox (all boys) high school and Hebrew was the language.

Yes but my point is that even that is a stretch. Most of the MoDox Elementary schools run from 9-4 or so. If you take away time for lunch and recess, and count Hebrew as a foreign language, you still might not get to 4.5 hours of Secular.

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #37 on: July 12, 2019, 11:58:18 AM »
Because once they are "in" they can start imposing exactly what can be taught etc.
People are fine with them being "in" to get taxpayer money.

Quite simply, I think there should be a minimum standard for state money, and if is not met, that yeshiva should get $0.

Offline aygart

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2019, 12:00:35 PM »
People are fine with them being "in" to get taxpayer money.

Quite simply, I think there should be a minimum standard for state money, and if is not met, that yeshiva should get $0.
That is not unreasonable, but there can also be a middle ground.

Offline ckmk47

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2019, 12:06:22 PM »
There are public schools that don't meet the minimum standard.
Do we close them down?  There's controversy over charter schools and they prove that they meet the standard.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2019, 12:06:35 PM »
Should this thread be merged with the Shlichus Addiction thread?
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2019, 12:14:58 PM »
4/3
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
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Offline ExGingi

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2019, 12:17:36 PM »
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
You are somewhat clueless about the topic.
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Offline Menachem613

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2019, 12:17:58 PM »
LSATs, Regents... any standardized tests.

But very good. Make something mandatory. Don't shove a whole pie down our throats. Cleary 3 hours is enough. Dont make us do more. Maybe make the mandatory 2 hours and see how it goes. Chances are if they actually teach it those kids will be in at least the 80th percentile.

We all know that the government really has no  interest in this altogether but were forced to act when confronted with the facts that some boy’s schools do not teach any secular studies. Our focus should be on those schools that are attracting this unwanted attention rather than fighting on their behalf. 

Offline Dr Moose

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Re: AN URGENT APPEAL TO THE NY YESHIVA COMMUNITY
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2019, 12:18:03 PM »
More than half the time for religion is a bit much.
You're not learning about religion, you're learning religious studies such as the Talmud. Yes, there's a difference as the Talmud is very stimulating.
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