Author Topic: AmEx Small Business Saturday (Read 589894 times)

Redbull3 · « **Reply #1860 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:50:10 PM »

Quote from: txtmax4 on November 26, 2012, 02:23:56 PM

AFAIK, from having consulted rabbonim regarding lending a CC to someone and making them (the borrower) liable for the finance charges. They all said that anything he borrows he is borrowing from ME not the CC and when he pays interest he is paying ME not the CC, even if he pays the CC directly without my intervention. Same applied here, when I charge my CC anywhere, automatically it's as if money just came out of my pocket because I just became liable to put up that cash to have to repay the CC.For the fifth time: Who the heck cares if I benefited out of giving maaser. If chayim yankel promises me 1 million dollars for giving my $1000 masser to his shul my $1000 didn't count as maaser??

Additionally, I would use my CC for maaser even without SBS, and even during SBS the charges were more than $25.

Good lamdus here!

bubbles · « **Reply #1861 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:51:16 PM »

Quote from: txtmax4 on November 26, 2012, 02:38:01 PM

You wouldn't? How about if he runs away to the Cayman islands leaving you with all the debt including the finance charges? You wouldn't have to pay them?

he means if not for the fact that he spent on your card. Though I guess you have to ask your LOR because I heard from a few people like you said that it would be ribbis for you to let him pay the interest

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #1862 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:53:44 PM »

Quote from: Ergel on November 26, 2012, 02:24:10 PM

(which is besides the point that many poskim consider ma'aser to be a minhag (a very important and nice one, but a minhag nonetheless) which makes most of this discussion moot)

-1
If you gave 3 times and did not state that it's Bli Neder, you are obligated to continue, unless you make a Hataras Neder.

mordy44 · « **Reply #1863 on:** November 26, 2012, 02:54:07 PM »

Quote

you feel is morally

Hopefully not. Hopefully one does not let their own feelings interfere with what they are told is correct.

AJK · « **Reply #1864 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:02:57 PM »

Quote from: Ergel on November 26, 2012, 02:26:47 PM

Why? seems reasonable to me. You are liable to the cc. They don't care who got the cash. In the end of the day if he doesn't pay they will come after you. Skipping you in the payment process has no relevance to who the loan is from

The following sounds eminently UNreasonable to me:

You come to me and ask me for a favor, to borrow my cc. I (stupidly?) agree. You spend, say, $1,000. At the end of the month, you don't pay me back contrary to our agreement. I incur fees of $100.

I simply can't get my head around the fact that halacha would dictate that I be responsible for the $100 in interest.

In effect, he is borrowing money from ME, not the CC company, as I would be on the hook as so:

Quote from: txtmax4 on November 26, 2012, 02:27:14 PM

I guess it's the CC AH's liability

mordy44 · « **Reply #1865 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:06:02 PM »

Quote

I simply can't get my head around the fact that halacha would dictate that I be responsible for the $100 in interest

I remember discussing this with my rebbi. Its not as poshut as you would think regarding ribis (lack of).

Then again, most things dont tend to be as poshut as one may expect........

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #1866 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:07:52 PM »

Quote from: AJK on November 26, 2012, 03:02:57 PM

The following sounds eminently UNreasonable to me:

You come to me and ask me for a favor, to borrow my cc. I (stupidly?) agree. You spend, say, $1,000. At the end of the month, you don't pay me back contrary to our agreement. I incur fees of $100.

I simply can't get my head around the fact that halacha would dictate that I be responsible for the $100 in interest.

In effect, he is borrowing money from ME, not the CC company, as I would be on the hook as so:

Am not a Rabbi but I would argue that in this case the borrower borrowed from the CC company with the middle guy acting as ערב קבלן (I might be wrong being that the CC company never agreed to lend money to the borrower and from their point of view they lent you money and you can do whatever you want with it, including lending it to irresponsible people...)

Achas Veachas · « **Reply #1867 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:11:04 PM »

מי כעמך ישראל
I'm sure the Bardichever would have made Mat'amim from this; A thread on SBS degenerates into an argument on Hilchos Ma'asros, Ribbis and whatnot...

AJK · « **Reply #1868 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:19:52 PM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on November 26, 2012, 03:07:52 PM

Am not a Rabbi but I would argue that in this case the borrower borrowed from the CC company with the middle guy acting as ערב קבלן (I might be wrong being that the CC company never agreed to lend money to the borrower and from their point of view they lent you money and you can do whatever you want with it, including lending it to irresponsible people...)

I'm not sure what side your trying to argue...

Quote from: Achas Veachas on November 26, 2012, 03:11:04 PM

מי כעמך ישראל
I'm sure the Bardichever would have made Mat'amim from this; A thread on SBS degenerates into an argument on Hilchos Ma'asros, Ribbis and whatnot...

+2

Saver2000 · « **Reply #1869 on:** November 26, 2012, 03:23:19 PM »

Quote from: Achas Veachas on November 26, 2012, 03:07:52 PM

Am not a Rabbi but I would argue that in this case the borrower borrowed from the CC company with the middle guy acting as ערב קבלן

-1

Quote

(I might be wrong being that the CC company never agreed to lend money to the borrower and from their point of view they lent you money and you can do whatever you want with it, including lending it to irresponsible people...)

Correct.

I fr'd from amex a few years and one of the triggers was an AU on my account doing most of the spending.
Amex said that they gave me a CL based on my history/score, and now that someone else is swiping - they (amex) has no way to know that that person will be able to pay the bill since they saw their score/report.

They said that even though at the end of the day i'm still responsible for the debt, its not something they like .