Author Topic: The Holocaust  (Read 5437 times)

Offline helpyouamdme

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The Holocaust
« on: July 26, 2019, 10:12:46 AM »


Am i wrong that after reading and watching about the holocaust i feel a need for נקמה in the nation who caused this?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 10:20:51 AM by helpyouamdme »

Offline grodnoking

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2019, 10:41:59 AM »

Am i wrong that after reading and watching about the holocaust i feel a need for נקמה in the nation who caused this?
The answer to this question is way to deep for a forum like this. I doubt I can even type it, and if I could it'll take quite a while.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2019, 10:45:23 AM »
The answer to this question is way to deep for a forum like this. I doubt I can even type it, and if I could it'll take quite a while.
at least you know the answer - that puts you way ahead of OP
« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 10:50:39 AM by gingyguy »
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2019, 12:46:27 PM »
The answer to this question is way to deep for a forum like this. I doubt I can even type it, and if I could it'll take quite a while.
Answer seems simple to me. Why do you need to complicate everything?
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2019, 12:49:41 PM »

Am i wrong that after reading and watching about the holocaust i feel a need for נקמה in the nation who caused this?

The Jews have suffered terrible atrocities at one time or another at the hands of almost every nation that inhabits this earth. Maybe there’s more here than just the need for nekama against a specific nation?

Offline ReadsTheT&C

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2019, 12:51:04 PM »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 01:05:38 PM »
The Jews have suffered terrible atrocities at one time or another at the hands of almost every nation that inhabits this earth. Maybe there’s more here than just the need for nekama against a specific nation?
Is the US in that group?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Yard sale

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 01:07:42 PM »
Is the US in that group?

The US is largely a conglomerate of descendants of various nations that are in that group; France, England, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2019, 01:08:51 PM »
The US is largely a conglomerate of descendants of various nations that are in that group; France, England, Spain, Italy, Russia, etc.
Thank you for the history lesson. Is that your way of saying yes without saying yes?
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2019, 01:48:13 PM »
Thank you for the history lesson. Is that your way of saying yes without saying yes?
The point is that the idea of nekama against one nation is missing the big picture. We don’t seek nekama in that sense of the word.

Offline gozalim

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2019, 02:10:52 PM »
Is the US in that group?
no
from the few exceptions

Offline zh cohen

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2019, 02:20:34 PM »

Am i wrong that after reading and watching about the holocaust i feel a need for נקמה in the nation who caused this?

The nation that did it are all dead. Who exactly do you want to take revenge on? Their children?

Offline Dan

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2019, 02:26:06 PM »
The nation that did it are all dead. Who exactly do you want to take revenge on? Their children?
Germany, Spain, and Russia are dead?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline Something Fishy

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2019, 02:27:19 PM »
No one is saying you must go to Germany or use German products, but the torah way is
לא יומתו אבות על בנים ובנים לא יומתו על אבות איש בחטאו יומתו     

Germany and Germans today bear no personal responsibility for the Holocaust.
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2019, 02:33:11 PM »
No one is saying you must go to Germany or use German products, but the torah way is
לא יומתו אבות על בנים ובנים לא יומתו על אבות איש בחטאו יומתו     

Germany and Germans today bear no personal responsibility for the Holocaust.
What about the swiss and polish who generations later (and probably still today) are hiding and not returning all what was taken during the war.
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2019, 02:37:20 PM »
Germany, Spain, and Russia are dead?

No, but the people in Germany, Spain and Russia who killed Jews (or supported those who did) are dead.

 Do we believe in collective responsibility?

Offline zh cohen

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2019, 02:39:40 PM »
What about the swiss and polish who generations later (and probably still today) are hiding and not returning all what was taken during the war.

In the event that later generations support and continue the actions of their parents, they do have a level of responsibility not just for their own actions but also for their parents.

Offline ReadsTheT&C

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2019, 02:45:28 PM »
No one is saying you must go to Germany or use German products, but the torah way is
לא יומתו אבות על בנים ובנים לא יומתו על אבות איש בחטאו יומתו     

Germany and Germans today bear no personal responsibility for the Holocaust.
I agree that the politicians running European governments today do not bear individual responsibility for the Shoah. The nagging question for me that I am reminded of every time I search a European village/town/city is how the current populations of these places continue to benefit from the depopulation of Jews from those areas. Even putting businesses and metaltalin aside, think of all the real estate that was owned by Jews who were murdered in these places by the Nazis or collaborators. Google Munkacs in Hungary. It was 48% Jewish before the war and only a few years later declared Judenrein. Al achat kamah v'kamah cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Danzig/Gdansk, Vilnius, Warsaw, Krakow, etc. The people who live there are not stupid. They have parents and grandparents who told them what happened. That they can sleep soundly in the homes and apartment buildings emptied by the decimation of European Jewry makes me sick to my stomach.

Offline Yard sale

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2019, 05:53:49 PM »
 וְיִנְקֹם לְעֵינֵינוּ נִקְמַת דַּם עֲבָדָיו הַשָּׁפוּךְ. כַּכָּתוּב בְּתוֹרַת מֹשֶׁה אִישׁ הָאֱלֹהִים. הַרְנִינוּ גוֹיִם עַמּוֹ כִּי דַם עֲבָדָיו יִקֹּם וְנָקָם יָשִׁיב לְצָרָיו וְכִפֶּר אַדְמָתוֹ עַמּוֹ: וְעַל יְדֵי עֲבָדֶיךָ הַנְּבִיאִים כָּתוּב לֵאמֹר. וְנִקֵּיתִי דָּמָם לֹא נִקֵּיתִי וַ-ה' שֹׁכֵן בְּצִיּוֹן:וּבְכִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ נֶאֱמַר לָמָּה יֹאמְרוּ הַגּוֹיִם אַיֵּה אֱלֹהֵיהֶם, יִוָּדַע בַּגּוֹיִם לְעֵינֵינוּ נִקְמַת דַּם עֲבָדֶיךָ הַשָּׁפוּךְ

Hashem has his ways of exacting nekama. It is not along the lines of what the OP had in mind.

Offline Chapshnell

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Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2019, 12:41:40 AM »
There is so much that can be said, and if reading about the holocaust made you angry just know that many survivors didnt talk about the horrors. Even those who spoke took many secrets to their grave or wont tell. What they did to kids (and adults) is unfathomable & unspoken about.

They didnt look at us like humans, we were worse than rats in their eyes.

Its sad to say but the truth, until moshiach comes it can happen again. Hopefully Hashem will have rachmunis on us but as long as were in galus were in big trouble. And Im not this cry cry type of guy. Its the truth.

The only “request” or whatever you want to call it yidden need to have from the Germans & company is to educate their youth what can happen when a nation is rallied with B.S. against another nation for no good reason. It starts with words & it ends in bloody murder.

It was Hashems plan, and he understood this is for the best. We cannot understand it.