Author Topic: The Holocaust  (Read 2492 times)

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1023
  • Total likes: 603
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2019, 02:37:20 PM »
Germany, Spain, and Russia are dead?

No, but the people in Germany, Spain and Russia who killed Jews (or supported those who did) are dead.

 Do we believe in collective responsibility?

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1023
  • Total likes: 603
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2019, 02:39:40 PM »
What about the swiss and polish who generations later (and probably still today) are hiding and not returning all what was taken during the war.

In the event that later generations support and continue the actions of their parents, they do have a level of responsibility not just for their own actions but also for their parents.

Offline ReadsTheT&C

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 638
  • Total likes: 32
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2019, 02:45:28 PM »
No one is saying you must go to Germany or use German products, but the torah way is
לא יומתו אבות על בנים ובנים לא יומתו על אבות איש בחטאו יומתו     

Germany and Germans today bear no personal responsibility for the Holocaust.
I agree that the politicians running European governments today do not bear individual responsibility for the Shoah. The nagging question for me that I am reminded of every time I search a European village/town/city is how the current populations of these places continue to benefit from the depopulation of Jews from those areas. Even putting businesses and metaltalin aside, think of all the real estate that was owned by Jews who were murdered in these places by the Nazis or collaborators. Google Munkacs in Hungary. It was 48% Jewish before the war and only a few years later declared Judenrein. Al achat kamah v'kamah cities like Berlin, Frankfurt, Danzig/Gdansk, Vilnius, Warsaw, Krakow, etc. The people who live there are not stupid. They have parents and grandparents who told them what happened. That they can sleep soundly in the homes and apartment buildings emptied by the decimation of European Jewry makes me sick to my stomach.

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 896
  • Total likes: 462
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2019, 05:53:49 PM »
 וְיִנְקֹם לְעֵינֵינוּ נִקְמַת דַּם עֲבָדָיו הַשָּׁפוּךְ. כַּכָּתוּב בְּתוֹרַת מֹשֶׁה אִישׁ הָאֱלֹהִים. הַרְנִינוּ גוֹיִם עַמּוֹ כִּי דַם עֲבָדָיו יִקֹּם וְנָקָם יָשִׁיב לְצָרָיו וְכִפֶּר אַדְמָתוֹ עַמּוֹ: וְעַל יְדֵי עֲבָדֶיךָ הַנְּבִיאִים כָּתוּב לֵאמֹר. וְנִקֵּיתִי דָּמָם לֹא נִקֵּיתִי וַ-ה' שֹׁכֵן בְּצִיּוֹן:וּבְכִתְבֵי הַקֹּדֶשׁ נֶאֱמַר לָמָּה יֹאמְרוּ הַגּוֹיִם אַיֵּה אֱלֹהֵיהֶם, יִוָּדַע בַּגּוֹיִם לְעֵינֵינוּ נִקְמַת דַּם עֲבָדֶיךָ הַשָּׁפוּךְ

Hashem has his ways of exacting nekama. It is not along the lines of what the OP had in mind.

Offline Chapshnell

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2013
  • Posts: 4797
  • Total likes: 253
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: BP
  • Programs: Delta Skypesos, AA Shilling, AS Pounds.
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2019, 12:41:40 AM »
There is so much that can be said, and if reading about the holocaust made you angry just know that many survivors didnt talk about the horrors. Even those who spoke took many secrets to their grave or wont tell. What they did to kids (and adults) is unfathomable & unspoken about.

They didnt look at us like humans, we were worse than rats in their eyes.

Its sad to say but the truth, until moshiach comes it can happen again. Hopefully Hashem will have rachmunis on us but as long as were in galus were in big trouble. And Im not this cry cry type of guy. Its the truth.

The only “request” or whatever you want to call it yidden need to have from the Germans & company is to educate their youth what can happen when a nation is rallied with B.S. against another nation for no good reason. It starts with words & it ends in bloody murder.

It was Hashems plan, and he understood this is for the best. We cannot understand it.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 1217
  • Total likes: 699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2019, 03:19:13 AM »
What about the swiss and polish who generations later (and probably still today) are hiding and not returning all what was taken during the war.
I always wondered if there is any data on how much revenue the most famous tourist attraction in Poland, known as "Auschwitz-Birkenau" generates into the Polish economy.

The fact that such a slaughter factory was placed precisely on that place, among those inhabitants, is a significant sign on the nature of that culture, I even doubt if they would be able to establish that close to a civilized Berlin or Frankfurt. Yet in the same time the Polish are literally allergic to any sort of associating that with Poland and even criminalized it.

Which brings me back to my above question, how much revenue does the 1.5 million visitors to Auschwitz a year generate into their economy? Do they have any measures taken to invest ALL those earnings, not just the actual admission fees into the camps, but all lodging, eatery, and transportation industries yieldings into Holocaust memorial or such? If that's not the case, then we are witnessing today in 2019 the worst interpretation of "הרצחת וגם ירשת", not just inheriting the victims fortunes but monetizing their shed blood.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9075
  • Total likes: 2445
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2019, 08:25:27 AM »
Not sure how you can use tourist attraction and Auschwitz in the same sentence.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 2035
  • Total likes: 539
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2019, 08:39:17 AM »
Not sure how you can use tourist attraction and Auschwitz in the same sentence.
This is basically his point

Online yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 2035
  • Total likes: 539
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2019, 08:41:59 AM »



The fact that such a slaughter factory was placed precisely on that place, among those inhabitants, is a significant sign on the nature of that culture, I even doubt if they would be able to establish that close to a civilized Berlin or Frankfurt.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Do you think Germans weren't the ones that actually carried out the Holocaust?

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9075
  • Total likes: 2445
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2019, 08:48:29 AM »
This is basically his point
It seemed the point was were the money should go but it can be clarified.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline zh cohen

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 1023
  • Total likes: 603
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2019, 12:41:43 PM »
Not sure how you can use tourist attraction and Auschwitz in the same sentence.

Right. But when they have a hot dog vendor in the ticket booth, they are making it that.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 9075
  • Total likes: 2445
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2019, 01:25:42 PM »
Right. But when they have a hot dog vendor in the ticket booth, they are making it that.
I seen a food court but don't know about the hotdogs. Let me be 100% clear. In no way, shape, or form did I consider this a tourist attraction when I went.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 1217
  • Total likes: 699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2019, 01:47:11 PM »
I seen a food court but don't know about the hotdogs. Let me be 100% clear. In no way, shape, or form did I consider this a tourist attraction when I went.
This is basically his point

Offline ReadsTheT&C

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 638
  • Total likes: 32
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: NY
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2019, 01:50:38 PM »
When you walk the Main Square of Krakow and on almost every shop window is an advertisement with the word Auschwitz and a tour price, it becomes more difficult to believe there is anything resembling guilt/shame for either the tour purveyors or the visitors. When I visited twice on delegations, the feeling I got from your average visitor was somewhere between disinterested and triumphalist. Even the way some of the exhibits are put together, you would think it was more of a tragedy for Poles than Jews.

Offline EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 1217
  • Total likes: 699
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: The Holocaust
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2019, 01:51:53 PM »

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Do you think Germans weren't the ones that actually carried out the Holocaust?
Of course it was the Germans. But the fact is that on no other Nazi occupied territory were such camps established, and on no other place were Jews been lined up against the wall to be shot, regularly. Jews were deported from Hungary, Czechoslovakia, France, Holland, Belgium, Greece, Yugoslavia  into death camps in Poland. Not even in German cities were Jews been shot in large numbers on the streets, and no death camps had been established there. Perhaps because the life of an average women even in Berlin would have been disturbed by seeing babies slaughtered in her backyard on a daily basis? That's for sure the case for the other occupied countries, but definitely not the case when talking of Poland. The primitive antisemitism that has been baked in for generations into their culture enabled that, ripening the Polish territory to be the ideal place for all these horrors.

I know the same can be said for Ukraine and the white Russian countries, but only the Polls polish themselves and are rewriting history, and additionally, only they benefit today of having a highly visited death camp in their country.