Author Topic: Why I donít live in Israel yet  (Read 4556 times)

Offline Yonah

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2019, 12:25:02 PM »
So am I.

Quote from: Mishpacha Magazine
Outsiders are defined in many chareidi sectors by three factors: Are they foreigners/non-Israeli born? Do they work? Are they baalei teshuvah? If the answer to any one of these three questions about you is yes, then you may feel like an outcast and outsider. It is possible to overcome any one of these ďhandicapsĒ to some extent, although rarely completely. If more than one of these is true, you face an uphill battle and likely will never be totally accepted or welcomed by the chareidi community. You will be treated particularly badly if all three of these conditions are true.

How is this not sinnas chinnum? I am not asking tounge in cheek - but is it acceptable to look down upon other Jews if they were born elsewhere? A jew that wants to provide for his family should be looked down upon? And everything else aside - we're shunning Ba'alei Teshuva? If that's the case, what's the point of Kiruv? It's like saying - "Let's bring someone closer to hashem so that they can live in a world where they'll be ostracized because their parents aren't frum."

« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 12:29:51 PM by Yonah »

Offline aygart

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2019, 12:26:46 PM »
Its actually sad that you should ask this. Unless there is something about Chabad shitos that I am unaware of.
That there may be an answer to the question doesn't invalidate the question. If the reason is that it may be better for frumkeit then that can be countered by how there are ways that it is worse etc.
The thing with the hamster is that running on the wheel is actually what it is trying to do.

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Offline AussieMan

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2019, 01:57:58 PM »
AFAIK according to most Halachic authorities there is no such mitzvah.
Incorrect.
Not a Chiyuv but most definitely a mitzvah.
I believe chabadniks confuse this because the Rebbe didn't live in E"y. However, that was clearly a matter of the Rebbe's mission. No shliach would be encouraged to move to E"y, but for a regular person living in USA - of course it's a mitzvah of yishuv E"Y.

By the way, have you ever visited E"y? Becasue that's much more of a Halachik issue, to leave once visiting.


Interesting read here - https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/97583/jewish/Reeh-Living-in-Eretz-Yisrael.htm
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 02:03:12 PM by AussieMan »

Offline AussieMan

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2019, 01:59:07 PM »
And security. (Though currently the USA is starting to feel almost as unsafe as Israel. But if course it's not even comparable..)
Not comparable as E"Y is the safest place in the world!

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #50 on: August 08, 2019, 02:04:27 PM »
Isn't there a general mitzvah of living in e"y?

Not according to most poskim. This is all very well explained in מאמר מצות ישוב ארץ ישראל in ויואל משה.

Offline YesThatsMe

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #51 on: August 08, 2019, 02:06:44 PM »
This is ridiculous. The list of Gedolim who tried to live in Eretz Yisrael throughout galus is very long.

It's a mitzva according to most poskim.

Even after 1948, almost all Gedolim still encouraged people to live there (all things being equal).

#FakeNewsAlert

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #52 on: August 08, 2019, 02:32:24 PM »
Many interesting responses  and valid specific questions for me.  I did have an excellent six figure job, pension option, great health care, nice house in a beach community so I  certainly was not fleeing or leaving because I had nothing to lose.  Sold or got rid of all material things, house, cars, furniture etc.  No lift, only two suitcases/ boxes per person.  Had small amount of savings to start. Also first year government gives new olim small monthly stipend to live. Actually had all family members stuff envelopes for a charity for additional money.  Got my foot in the door of a school as an assistant in a kindergarten for a maternity leave.   You do what you need to do. Things worked out.  First apartment taken sight unseen.  Still in apartment nine years later, turned out to be a perfect location.  No car, never really missed it.  Donít miss any of the material things we dont have.
I will answer ex gingi Ďs valid question about why someone should move here in a separate post.
I really find the responses fascinating and eye opening.

I think your post begs the question. What changed in your life? Was there a cataclysmic life event that took place? Major religious awakening? What prompted you to suddenly leave it all with three grown kids? You must admit that yours if far from  a typical life change that is made, especially someone if your economic situation....

Offline mmgfarb

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #53 on: August 08, 2019, 02:41:50 PM »
How is this not sinnas chinnum? I am not asking tounge in cheek - but is it acceptable to look down upon other Jews if they were born elsewhere? A jew that wants to provide for his family should be looked down upon? And everything else aside - we're shunning Ba'alei Teshuva? If that's the case, what's the point of Kiruv? It's like saying - "Let's bring someone closer to hashem so that they can live in a world where they'll be ostracized because their parents aren't frum."
Right or wrong, it's the way the culture is. Saying that you believe it should be different doesn't change the current reality.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #55 on: August 08, 2019, 02:58:28 PM »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yonah

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #56 on: August 08, 2019, 02:59:24 PM »
Right or wrong, it's the way the culture is. Saying that you believe it should be different doesn't change the current reality.

I agree that's what the culture is, but I can't understand how this can be "Right"?

What happened to welcoming in strangers? To the phrase - "בקןם שבעלי תשובה עומדים אין צדיקים גמורים יכולים לעמוד?"


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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #57 on: August 08, 2019, 03:04:35 PM »
I think your post begs the question. What changed in your life? Was there a cataclysmic life event that took place? Major religious awakening? What prompted you to suddenly leave it all with three grown kids? You must admit that yours if far from  a typical life change that is made, especially someone if your economic situation....


It was actually not a rash decision .  We went to Israel for 4-6 weeks every summer for eight years to acclimate and go with our eyes wide open.  I think the thing that finally pushed us to go was our desire not to have our family split in two countries as some of the kids would soon be of the age that their situation may keep them in the U.S., spouse etc.  Our  family was too close for the family to be split.  All The kids were also gung ho for the move which is crucial in the success.

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Re: Why I donít live in Israel yet
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2019, 03:15:07 PM »
It's a mitzva according to most poskim.

That's interesting. I've never seen it. Can you please post sources/quotes?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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