Author Topic: PC friday question of the day.  (Read 184721 times)

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #300 on: October 13, 2019, 03:47:22 PM »

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #301 on: October 16, 2019, 05:59:34 PM »
Followup to prior PC question:

Do you believe in cows being a major contributor to global warming, and if yes, what should be done about it?

HT: Bill Gates

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2019-10-16/why-bill-gates-thinks-impossible-foods-and-beyond-meat-can-help-fight-climate-change-video
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Offline whYME

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #302 on: October 25, 2019, 03:22:14 PM »
But that's exactly my point. accepting Darwinism as fact (or even as a viable option) is ascientific.

As I said in my original post Saying there's no way to know is fine. Saying that science supports the notion that there is no G-d is simply not true.
Darwinism has been effectively disproven. (At least to the intellectually honest.) The big bang theory still has some big unanswered questions. It may be the best theory we have right now, but it's not quite the scientific fact it's made out to be.
Believing those things as fact is a religious belief, not a scientific belief.
So I ran this post past my scientific fact-checker a little later that day just to make sure I was good here, but I didn't get a chance to follow up here and it kinda slipped my mind...

He basically agreed with my overall sentiment but wasn't so happy with some of the words I used. e.g. he didn't like me using the word "disproven" about Darwinism. I guess when your talking about science proven/disproven is not a word to be used lightly. (I need to double-check if my use with the qualifier "effectively disproven" makes it kosher.)

One thing he added, which goes to this 
No, I'm saying that contrary to popular belief, believing there's no G-d and the world created itself completely by chance is no more rational than believing that there's a G-d who creates and runs the world.
is that "For anyone intellectually honest, it takes far more emunah to say that this all (big bang, evolution) happened on it's own by chance than to say there's some power controlling it all."

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #303 on: November 08, 2019, 08:31:35 AM »
Anybody ? Gotta start early as these are short Friday’s

Offline Yonah

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #304 on: November 08, 2019, 08:41:11 AM »
Here's one for you:

I belong to a neighborhood facebook group. Someone posted a picture of a car (with a clear license plate) alleging that the car passed a school bus with it's stop sign on. Long story short - the police were informed and are now investigating. So here comes the question - at one point does it become appropriate to report someone like this? At one point is it required?

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #305 on: November 08, 2019, 08:43:29 AM »
Here's one for you:

I belong to a neighborhood facebook group. Someone posted a picture of a car (with a clear license plate) alleging that the car passed a school bus with it's stop sign on. Long story short - the police were informed and are now investigating. So here comes the question - at one point does it become appropriate to report someone like this? At one point is it required?
Never.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #306 on: November 08, 2019, 09:02:15 AM »
Here's one for you:

I belong to a neighborhood facebook group. Someone posted a picture of a car (with a clear license plate) alleging that the car passed a school bus with it's stop sign on. Long story short - the police were informed and are now investigating. So here comes the question - at one point does it become appropriate to report someone like this? At one point is it required?
Not required but you should report the person. This is a serious offense.
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #307 on: November 08, 2019, 09:06:54 AM »
Here's one for you:

I belong to a neighborhood facebook group. Someone posted a picture of a car (with a clear license plate) alleging that the car passed a school bus with it's stop sign on. Long story short - the police were informed and are now investigating. So here comes the question - at one point does it become appropriate to report someone like this? At one point is it required?

There are specific Halachos of mesirah brought down in shulchan aruch and the later poskim that apply to one who has the potential to cause harm to others, delineating when it is appropriate to warn someone before hand, when one is allowed or even required to immediately be moser him, and when one is absolutely not allowed and loses his share in olam haba for doing so. There are many factors that come into play such as the levels and immediacy of the danger that he is putting others in among many other factors. Ask a competent Rav as to how to proceed.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #308 on: November 08, 2019, 09:10:52 AM »
There are specific Halachos of mesirah brought down in shulchan aruch and the later poskim that apply to one who has the potential to cause harm to others, delineating when it is appropriate to warn someone before hand, when one is allowed or even required to immediately be moser him, and when one is absolutely not allowed and loses his share in olam haba for doing so. There are many factors that come into play such as the levels and immediacy of the danger that he is putting others in among many other factors. Ask a competent Rav as to how to proceed.
How about just using common sense? That is the problem with all religions. Common sense seems to go out the window.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #309 on: November 08, 2019, 09:21:38 AM »
Exactly. How about using common sense? What would be the outcome of "reporting" this violator? At most a huge hassle. A conviction or fine? I highly doubt it!

Reporting is just fulfilling a sense of self righteousness, no real effective outcome is likely. If you see someone doing this. Stop them and confront them then and there, if you didn't or can't do that, just move on and make sure you and your family always do the right thing.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #310 on: November 08, 2019, 09:40:04 AM »
Exactly. How about using common sense? What would be the outcome of "reporting" this violator? At most a huge hassle. A conviction or fine? I highly doubt it!

Reporting is just fulfilling a sense of self righteousness, no real effective outcome is likely. If you see someone doing this. Stop them and confront them then and there, if you didn't or can't do that, just move on and make sure you and your family always do the right thing.
Look how much publicity this is getting now. I'll definitely think twice about passing a school bus now, and I'm sure many others will as well. I think the post was justified for sure.
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #311 on: November 08, 2019, 09:40:19 AM »
How about just using common sense? That is the problem with all religions. Common sense seems to go out the window.

 When I look at the “common sense” that prevails outside of religion I see where that common sense leads to: broken homes, dysfunction, billions of people behaving as if in a rat race with little purpose in life, rampant depression and despair, widespread opioid and other drug abuse to escape the meaningless life people lead, and callousness towards human life in general. That’s  just the tip of the iceberg.

Common sense is wildly subjective. Not too long ago it meant enslaving all the blacks, letting the poor starve, or throwing them in debtors prisons, etc. “common sense” now includes forcing 5 year olds to learn about deviant lifestyles, and euthanasia for teens who are fed up with life- against their parents wishes- in many European countries.
I’ll take my religion any day. Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 09:49:02 AM by Yard sale »

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #312 on: November 08, 2019, 09:43:07 AM »
When I look at the “common sense” that prevails outside of religion I see where that common sense leads to: broken homes, dysfunction, billions of people behaving as if in a rat race with little purpose in life, rampant depression and despair, widespread opioid and other drug abuse to escape the meaningless life people lead, and callousness towards human life in general. That’s  just the tip of the iceberg.

I’ll take my religion any day. Thank you.
Pretty sure CV would call those things outside the realm of common sense. Or contrary to common sense.
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Offline grodnoking

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #313 on: November 08, 2019, 09:54:27 AM »
Pretty sure CV would call those things outside the realm of common sense. Or contrary to common sense.
But clearly the rest of the "modern" world thinks it common sense, since they are trying their hardest to shove it down our throats.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #314 on: November 08, 2019, 10:02:27 AM »
Pretty sure CV would call those things outside the realm of common sense. Or contrary to common sense.

But that’s just the point. People think “why do we need religion with all its micro details and minutiae, just use common sense.” Yet it’s clear that common sense with no outside objective guiding principles comes up with some really bizarre conclusions often leading to disaster.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 10:11:10 AM by cmey »

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #315 on: November 08, 2019, 10:04:53 AM »
But that’s just the point. People think “why do we need religion with all its micro details and minutiae, just use common sense.” Yet it’s clear that common sense with no outside objective guiding principles leads to disaster.
Reread @CountValentine statement. He never said we don't need religion. He said religion needs common sense. And with that I agree.
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Offline Yonah

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #316 on: November 08, 2019, 10:12:46 AM »
Look how much publicity this is getting now. I'll definitely think twice about passing a school bus now, and I'm sure many others will as well. I think the post was justified for sure.

That's a very good point.

How about just using common sense? That is the problem with all religions. Common sense seems to go out the window.

"Common Sense", IMHO, requires context. If I saw a friend do that (especially if couldn't believe s/he would do something like that) I'd probably approach them. If it was a stranger, (or a repeat offender), I'd probably be more incensed.

If I also knew that the same bus driver sat their for 20 minutes every morning with his stop sign open waiting for the kids of a specific family, I'd take a different approach.

Exactly. How about using common sense? What would be the outcome of "reporting" this violator? At most a huge hassle. A conviction or fine? I highly doubt it!
In this case, the poster only took a picture of the car, AFTER they had witnessed them pass the bus. There's no video, and no picture of the stop sign extended for context. So I imagine that the driver of the car will get a warning. Although a quick google search suggests that this person is subject to a minimum fine of $250 and 5 points on their license here in NY.

Reporting is just fulfilling a sense of self righteousness, no real effective outcome is likely. If you see someone doing this. Stop them and confront them then and there, if you didn't or can't do that, just move on and make sure you and your family always do the right thing.

So for context, the full frustration is that the poster lives on that street and has small children getting picked up by the bus. The post also indicated that this is a regular occurrence, and I imagine the post was to raise awareness to neighbors and others in the area.

There are specific Halachos of mesirah brought down in shulchan aruch and the later poskim that apply to one who has the potential to cause harm to others, delineating when it is appropriate to warn someone before hand, when one is allowed or even required to immediately be moser him, and when one is absolutely not allowed and loses his share in olam haba for doing so. There are many factors that come into play such as the levels and immediacy of the danger that he is putting others in among many other factors. Ask a competent Rav as to how to proceed.

I wasn't necessarily asking this in a 'halachic' context. The group where this is posted is a neighborhood group where most of the people (both in the group and the neighborhood) aren't Jewish, and far fewer are frum.

But this raises another interesting point/question. My shul always has problems with traffic. Many people need to cross a relatively busy street to come to shul. There is a crosswalk with a yield sign, but no stop sign. While B"H no one has been hit by a car, we have had several near misses. After 1 Yom tov a few years ago, we complained to the police, and provided them with footage from our security cameras of people violating the crosswalk. They now come every other week to do traffic stops along this route.

Does that make all of us mosers? Or because we're a) in a sakana and b) only reporting frei yidden and goyim who're driving on shabbos are we okay?

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #317 on: November 08, 2019, 10:51:47 AM »
Here's one for you:

I belong to a neighborhood facebook group. Someone posted a picture of a car (with a clear license plate) alleging that the car passed a school bus with it's stop sign on. Long story short - the police were informed and are now investigating. So here comes the question - at one point does it become appropriate to report someone like this? At one point is it required?
I've seen posts on our local FB group about driver's behaving badly.
I think being posted on the group is effective by itself, but that's probably because we're a smaller community.
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Offline Yard sale

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #318 on: November 08, 2019, 10:52:13 AM »
That's a very good point.

"Common Sense", IMHO, requires context. If I saw a friend do that (especially if couldn't believe s/he would do something like that) I'd probably approach them. If it was a stranger, (or a repeat offender), I'd probably be more incensed.

If I also knew that the same bus driver sat their for 20 minutes every morning with his stop sign open waiting for the kids of a specific family, I'd take a different approach.
In this case, the poster only took a picture of the car, AFTER they had witnessed them pass the bus. There's no video, and no picture of the stop sign extended for context. So I imagine that the driver of the car will get a warning. Although a quick google search suggests that this person is subject to a minimum fine of $250 and 5 points on their license here in NY.

So for context, the full frustration is that the poster lives on that street and has small children getting picked up by the bus. The post also indicated that this is a regular occurrence, and I imagine the post was to raise awareness to neighbors and others in the area.

I wasn't necessarily asking this in a 'halachic' context. The group where this is posted is a neighborhood group where most of the people (both in the group and the neighborhood) aren't Jewish, and far fewer are frum.

But this raises another interesting point/question. My shul always has problems with traffic. Many people need to cross a relatively busy street to come to shul. There is a crosswalk with a yield sign, but no stop sign. While B"H no one has been hit by a car, we have had several near misses. After 1 Yom tov a few years ago, we complained to the police, and provided them with footage from our security cameras of people violating the crosswalk. They now come every other week to do traffic stops along this route.

Does that make all of us mosers? Or because we're a) in a sakana and b) only reporting frei yidden and goyim who're driving on shabbos are we okay?

You are asking Police to implement future enforcement, not to fine a specific violation that already took place. That’s unlikely to be a mesira issue even if it would be an entirely frum neighborhood. Additionally, an individual violator may need to be approached and warned so that he has the opportunity to correct his behavior prior to informing the authorities unless the danger is such that that is not feasible. That wouldn’t seem to be an issue when it is the general public causing the safety concern. As always AYLOR.

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #319 on: November 08, 2019, 10:54:22 AM »
is someone who passes a school bus a rodef?