Author Topic: PC friday question of the day.  (Read 184634 times)

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #400 on: November 15, 2019, 01:27:26 PM »
This hit more of a chord, because there was one particular Rebbe who essentially followed along the lines of what R' Miller said. If you misbehaved, he'd call you up to his desk, and take out a book of tehilim (psalms) and tell you that he was reciting chapters of tehilim as a prayer that the punishment he was about to dole out was for the appropriate reasons. He'd then stand up (ask you to remove your glasses if you were wearing them) and smacked you full force across the face. Not once or twice, but at least a handful of times, sometimes more (the top 3 in the class were me and two other kids, each hit 20-25 consecutive times). He was not a small man either - he was about 6'2"-6'3" and about 220 - he wasn't fat, he was solid.

This is beyond me. I can relate to the quote from R' Avigdor Miller (though I'm not sure about the number 5), but I cannot fathom why anyone would do what you have just described (other than letting out something totally unrelated to the behavior of the child being beaten).
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Offline Yonah

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #401 on: November 15, 2019, 01:44:36 PM »
This is beyond me. I can relate to the quote from R' Avigdor Miller (though I'm not sure about the number 5), but I cannot fathom why anyone would do what you have just described (other than letting out something totally unrelated to the behavior of the child being beaten).

It's beyond me too, however much in the minority this level of abuse is, I know from friends at other yeshivos that this wasn't isolated. I also learned years later that shortly after our grade passed through his class, this particular rebbe came to the realization that this was wrong, and changed his teaching style.

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #402 on: November 15, 2019, 01:50:46 PM »
To try to redirect this to a more pc topic:

What was the strangest and/or most embarrassing punishment you were ever subject to in school?

Mine: In HS, my history teacher was a catholic school teacher who taught in Yeshiva in the afternoons. He once punished me by having me stand with a 1000-page world history book in each outstretched arm, and my knees slightly bent.  While I was too naive and stupid to realize what was going on, our limudei kodesh principal happened to walk by the classroom, and realized that I looked like I was being crucified - literally.

He walked into the room, and explained to the teacher that while it was okay to punish the students who misbehaved, it was NOT okay to use that specific punishment in a Jewish school.

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #403 on: November 15, 2019, 01:59:04 PM »
To try to redirect this to a more pc topic:

What was the strangest and/or most embarrassing punishment you were ever subject to in school?

Mine: In HS, my history teacher was a catholic school teacher who taught in Yeshiva in the afternoons. He once punished me by having me stand with a 1000-page world history book in each outstretched arm, and my knees slightly bent.  While I was too naive and stupid to realize what was going on, our limudei kodesh principal happened to walk by the classroom, and realized that I looked like I was being crucified - literally.

He walked into the room, and explained to the teacher that while it was okay to punish the students who misbehaved, it was NOT okay to use that specific punishment in a Jewish school.

You just gave another reason (not that another was needed) why learning על טהרת הקודש is the way to go.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #404 on: November 15, 2019, 02:07:59 PM »
How is this PC? It is also dated that it came from a quote in 1995 - not sure that this was when it was actually said.

This definitely hit a chord. I probably grew up in an era where spanking started being phased out (I was in elementary school in the 80s). As the class clown and trouble maker, I was definitely hit quite a bit, starting as early as 1st grade. More so by my teachers than by my parents. Understand that spanking in schools wasn't limited to Jewish schools - many of my catholic friends have told me about their run-ins with the Ruler-wielding nuns.

This hit more of a chord, because there was one particular Rebbe who essentially followed along the lines of what R' Miller said. If you misbehaved, he'd call you up to his desk, and take out a book of tehilim (psalms) and tell you that he was reciting chapters of tehilim as a prayer that the punishment he was about to dole out was for the appropriate reasons. He'd then stand up (ask you to remove your glasses if you were wearing them) and smacked you full force across the face. Not once or twice, but at least a handful of times, sometimes more (the top 3 in the class were me and two other kids, each hit 20-25 consecutive times). He was not a small man either - he was about 6'2"-6'3" and about 220 - he wasn't fat, he was solid.

In those days, there was no ADHD, no learning disabilities, limited drugs. Kids were just lazy and slow, and if you didn't fit the square peg they tried to put you in, it was because of one of those two reasons, and they'd beat the living snot out of you until you were less lazy or a little faster. 

I'm sure that there are those of you who would argue that I was probably behaving poorly to deserve it, and that it's appropriate. But as an adult, 30+ years removed, the only thing it beat out of me was any desire to learn limudei kodesh. It took me 3 more schools to find my true love of torah. It came in my third school, not because the educators were so great, but because it was so small they had the time to answer my questions, and foster my love of learning. 


Always boggles my mind when I find out how many of my friends have been hit by teachers and parents as kids.

To try to redirect this to a more pc topic:

What was the strangest and/or most embarrassing punishment you were ever subject to in school?

That's more fun.

2nd grade teacher couldn't read my answer, so he wrote it on the board and made fun of it to class, saying how could anyone ever read that, it's alien letters, etc.

Needless to say, I just didn't write answers to his test questions anymore ;)

(Worst punishment I heard was making a little kid eat a bar of soap)
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #405 on: November 15, 2019, 02:18:56 PM »
My 6th grade rebbi used to basically just send kids out, essentially to get out their excess energy if they were disturbing the class. The only time I ever remember being sent out, he told me to go flap my wings in the gym. So I did. The teacher or rebbi and class that were using the gym at the time were very confused.

Offline mercaz1

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #406 on: November 15, 2019, 02:20:01 PM »
didn't happen to me but when we were in 6th grade there was a high schooler looking into our classroom trying to get a kids attention and the rebbe brought the high school kid (think he might have been in 9th or 10th grade) and made him stand in the corner facing the corner for nice amount of time.


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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #407 on: November 15, 2019, 02:44:45 PM »
If you forgot your bathing suit (swimming costume where I come from) the sports coach made you swim in your underwear.


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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #408 on: November 16, 2019, 10:49:05 PM »
If you forgot your bathing suit (swimming costume where I come from) the sports coach made you swim in your underwear.

And I always thought it was a bathing costume.
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #409 on: November 17, 2019, 09:11:48 AM »
Back on the topic of hitting a child - is it appropriate to hit a child to teach them to stay away from danger? Eg. Child runs in the street after you tell them not to.

I think it’s not just okay but the correct thing to do.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #410 on: November 17, 2019, 09:34:30 AM »
Back on the topic of hitting a child - is it appropriate to hit a child to teach them to stay away from danger? Eg. Child runs in the street after you tell them not to.

I think it’s not just okay but the correct thing to do.
Why is the assumption that the child isn't a rational being that can be talked to and explained the danger of what they did?
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #411 on: November 17, 2019, 09:44:53 AM »
Back on the topic of hitting a child - is it appropriate to hit a child to teach them to stay away from danger? Eg. Child runs in the street after you tell them not to.

I think it’s not just okay but the correct thing to do.
So following your logic, for sure a kid should be hit to teach them to stay away from spiritual dangers

Offline yuneeq

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #412 on: November 17, 2019, 09:49:43 AM »
Why is the assumption that the child isn't a rational being that can be talked to and explained the danger of what they did?

I’m talking about after you spoke to them and explained to them.
Edit: is it rational to assume that kids are rational?  ::)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 09:56:10 AM by yuneeq »
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #413 on: November 17, 2019, 09:49:55 AM »
So following your logic, for sure a kid should be hit to teach them to stay away from spiritual dangers

No
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #414 on: November 17, 2019, 10:02:44 AM »
Back on the topic of hitting a child - is it appropriate to hit a child to teach them to stay away from danger? Eg. Child runs in the street after you tell them not to.

I think it’s not just okay but the correct thing to do.
Are you hitting them hard enough to inflict pain? What is the purpose of hitting them?
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #415 on: November 17, 2019, 10:07:54 AM »
Edit: is it rational to assume that kids are rational?  ::)
I find that it can take more time, but they can be. Never felt the need to hit over explaining.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #416 on: November 17, 2019, 10:08:32 AM »
Are you hitting them hard enough to inflict pain? What is the purpose of hitting them?

My kids are little so like a slap on the wrist.
I feel a little pain now can  save from a lot of pain later on.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #417 on: November 17, 2019, 10:12:36 AM »
My kids are little so like a slap on the wrist.
I feel a little pain now can  save from a lot of pain later on.
So the logic here is associate the pain you inflicted with something they did wrong? Wouldn't a child have to be thinking rationally to make that association? To take that a step further if they are capable of thinking rationally isn't there a better way?
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #418 on: November 17, 2019, 10:26:06 AM »
So the logic here is associate the pain you inflicted with something they did wrong? Wouldn't a child have to be thinking rationally to make that association? To take that a step further if they are capable of thinking rationally isn't there a better way?
Obviously you tell him and explain to him what he did wrong too.
No matter how many times you explain to a child that he must flush the toilet, he must close the lights... he will still many times not.
But your kid does not need to be told twice not to touch a hot pot or jump down 5 stair at a time (after hes done it once).

Your kids first painful lesson about running into the street might be his last r"l, I'd rather let his lesson not be a deadly one.
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Re: PC friday question of the day.
« Reply #419 on: November 17, 2019, 10:29:33 AM »
Obviously you tell him and explain to him what he did wrong too.
No matter how many times you explain to a child that he must flush the toilet, he must close the lights... he will still many times not.
But your kid does not need to be told twice not to touch a hot pot or jump down 5 stair at a time (after hes done it once).

Your kids first painful lesson about running into the street might be his last r"l, I'd rather let his lesson not be a deadly one.
Ok so with this logic I would break his arm or leg to make sure he will never forget not to do it again. More pain more gain?
Your pot logic is flawed as many kids do it more than once.
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