Author Topic: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!  (Read 6389 times)

Offline zale

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2019, 04:38:12 PM »
i'll just leave this here

“Doesn’t advance it’s case as a tolerant democracy”

F@*# you Warren. Israel doesn’t have to “make it’s case” that it’s tolerant.

Offline Sammy82

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2019, 04:41:00 PM »
What time did Trump tweet? I heard about it before 7 this morning. At the time, interior minister Deri had already announced it.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2019, 04:44:14 PM »
What time did Trump tweet? I heard about it before 7 this morning. At the time, interior minister Deri had already announced it.

No none thinks Trump's tweet *today* pushed them to make the decision, Trump has been pressuring for a while, as has been widely reported.
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Offline TimT

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2019, 04:47:17 PM »
What time did Trump tweet? I heard about it before 7 this morning. At the time, interior minister Deri had already announced it.
The “great weakness” tweet was 6 hours ago
No none thinks Trump's tweet *today* pushed them to make the decision, Trump has been pressuring for a while, as has been widely reported.
You'd be very surprised how many think it’s only due to the tweet. That’s how the media headlines are screaming it.

Offline grodnoking

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2019, 04:49:16 PM »
The “great weakness” tweet was 6 hours agoYou'd be very surprised how many think it’s only due to the tweet. That’s how the media headlines are screaming it.
And @CountValentine
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Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2019, 04:50:30 PM »
You'd be very surprised how many think it’s only due to the tweet. That’s how the media headlines are screaming it.

*No one serious
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Offline gingyguy

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2019, 05:14:55 PM »
@CountValentine

1) They skipped the bipartisan trip a couple weeks ago to Israel which met with groups on both sides.
2) They support BDS, which denies Israel's right to exist
3) Israel allows for dissent, but not BDS, for obvious reasons. Israel was considering *waiving* this law to let them in.
4) Their itinerary is for a trip to "Palestine" - not Israel.
5) The sponsor of the trip is a group that denies Israel's right to exist and is dangerously anti semitic:
6) Their itinerary includes visits with groups linked to terrorists
7) They did not have any Israeli representation scheduled on their trip.
8) Other countries have denied entry to lawmakers from other countries (allies even).
9) The United States has denied entry to a member of the Knesset.
10) Obama encouraged the UK to deny entry to lawmakers from other countries.
11) The itinerary was posted only a couple days ago, long after Israel had stated they would be allowed in.
12) Tlaib is allowed to reapply for a family visit, just not a political one.

This is just a partial list, there is more to be said. However even with all of this, I still think Israel made the wrong decision. But to think it is such a clear cut choice, that they are just sucking up to Trump, or that it is unprecedented to treat an ally's lawmakers like this is just false.

As for the fake news, how many news stories will frame this decision with *any* of the above context?
How many are stating that "Israel has something to hide" when they allow thousands of dissenters through their borders and Israel has the most dissenting population you can imagine?
How many are invoking the term "Muslim ban" when their religion had nothing to do with the decision and 1,500,000 Muslims live peacefully in Israel?
How many reporters are asking Tlaib and Omar about the trip sponsors, the itinerary or the fact that BDS denies Israel's right to exist?

If anyone is drinking Kool Aid, it ain't the people on this thread.
Weird , but if i hadn't seen who posted this I would have had to assume yehuda57... ;D
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline Dawie

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2019, 05:54:11 PM »
WTAF

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2019, 06:08:55 PM »
WTAF

They are trying to keep support for Israel as a bi-partisan issue. The question is how much anti-Semitism they are willing to put up with to do it.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2019, 06:13:01 PM »
@CountValentine
Another thoughtful post that deserves a serious response.
Leave out points 5 and 6 only because I don't know if they are correct. As far as all your other points have I disputed any of these in this thread?
If you want to vote Democrat, you are being very disloyal to Jewish people and very disloyal to Israel, Mr. Trump said.

Offline zh cohen

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2019, 07:07:42 PM »
@CountValentine


12) Tlaib is allowed to reapply for a family visit, just not a political one.

This is just a partial list, there is more to be said. However even with all of this, I still think Israel made the wrong decision. But to think it is such a clear cut choice, that they are just sucking up to Trump, or that it is unprecedented to treat an ally's lawmakers like this is just false.

As for the fake news, how many news stories will frame this decision with *any* of the above context?

If anyone is drinking Kool Aid, it ain't the people on this thread.

13) There is a significant chance that the provocations they had scheduled (like the visit to the Temple Mount with Palestinian political figures) would lead to violence.

Offline 12HRS

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2019, 07:09:08 PM »

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2019, 08:00:57 PM »
@CountValentine

1) They skipped the bipartisan trip a couple weeks ago to Israel which met with groups on both sides.
2) They support BDS, which denies Israel's right to exist
3) Israel allows for dissent, but not BDS, for obvious reasons. Israel was considering *waiving* this law to let them in.
4) Their itinerary is for a trip to "Palestine" - not Israel.
5) The sponsor of the trip is a group that denies Israel's right to exist and is dangerously anti semitic:
6) Their itinerary includes visits with groups linked to terrorists
7) They did not have any Israeli representation scheduled on their trip.
8) Other countries have denied entry to lawmakers from other countries (allies even).
9) The United States has denied entry to a member of the Knesset.
10) Obama encouraged the UK to deny entry to lawmakers from other countries.
11) The itinerary was posted only a couple days ago, long after Israel had stated they would be allowed in.
12) Tlaib is allowed to reapply for a family visit, just not a political one.

This is just a partial list, there is more to be said. However even with all of this, I still think Israel made the wrong decision. But to think it is such a clear cut choice, that they are just sucking up to Trump, or that it is unprecedented to treat an ally's lawmakers like this is just false.

As for the fake news, how many news stories will frame this decision with *any* of the above context?
How many are stating that "Israel has something to hide" when they allow thousands of dissenters through their borders and Israel has the most dissenting population you can imagine?
How many are invoking the term "Muslim ban" when their religion had nothing to do with the decision and 1,500,000 Muslims live peacefully in Israel?
How many reporters are asking Tlaib and Omar about the trip sponsors, the itinerary or the fact that BDS denies Israel's right to exist?

If anyone is drinking Kool Aid, it ain't the people on this thread.
Great post!

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2019, 08:35:47 PM »
Leave out points 5 and 6 only because I don't know if they are correct.

I included a link to a Twitter thread which had reputable links about two organizations. I can provide more upon request, but it's really quite clear there.

These facts are a big deal, it's not just that Israel is blocking congresswomen based on "political beliefs" but on people tacitly supporting terrorists and the murder of its citizens.

As far as all your other points have I disputed any of these in this thread?

You didn't necessarily dispute any actual points, but facts without context or with the wrong context can end up changing.

You said Israel is sucking up to Trump - and they might be - but to be sure about that you need to dismiss the very real and plausible reasoning Israel provided. The points I made are to show that the choice was a tough one and very much connected with Israel. It wasn't just about meddling in US politics.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Israel banning Tlaib and Omar!
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2019, 08:45:13 PM »
I included a link to a Twitter thread which had reputable links about two organizations. I can provide more upon request, but it's really quite clear there.

These facts are a big deal, it's not just that Israel is blocking congresswomen based on "political beliefs" but on people tacitly supporting terrorists and the murder of its citizens.

You didn't necessarily dispute any actual points, but facts without context or with the wrong context can end up changing.

You said Israel is sucking up to Trump - and they might be - but to be sure about that you need to dismiss the very real and plausible reasoning Israel provided. The points I made are to show that the choice was a tough one and very much connected with Israel. It wasn't just about meddling in US politics.
Again I am not disagreeing and my Trump comments are for the Kool-Aid drinkers.
If you want to vote Democrat, you are being very disloyal to Jewish people and very disloyal to Israel, Mr. Trump said.