Author Topic: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)  (Read 20976 times)

Offline CountValentine

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FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.
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Offline aygart

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FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.

How does it they compare when adjusting for percent of population especially when adjusting for those visibly Jewish.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

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Will give my view. They want to make a distinction form other religious Jews. It will not be a favorable one for other Jews.
I consider it to be a mostly social distinction.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline whYME

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Same lane. Hate crimes are under covered and underreported for all minorities. AFAIK no one disagrees with that, do you? Now at what rate is subject to debate. Many dismiss the FBI stats because it only covers reported hate crimes (not their fault).
At what rate is kind of the whole issue here, although it may not have been the best choice of words. The whole discussion is whether attacks against Jews are treated differently (i.e. pretty much entirely ignored) by the media and celebrity social media than attacks against others. IIUC you're saying no and I'm saying yes.

How many stories have you seen blow up in the national media in the last few years about bias attacks against anyone other than a jew (and how many of those turned to be a hoax? but that's a whole nother discussion) and how many have you seen about bias attacks against Jews? (I'm not talking about mass shootings / murders)

Although maybe we're not really arguing here. I'm saying Attacks against Jews are pretty much entirely ignored and you're saying other attacks are under-reported. I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction.

Offline whYME

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FBI stats. The number one group for hate crimes against them is African American. This is by total number of hate crimes for 2017.
Now do per-capita.

Offline CountValentine

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How does it they compare when adjusting for percent of population especially when adjusting for those visibly Jewish.
Now do per-capita.
Didn't see that but my guess by the numbers it would be Jewish by a big margin.
Which one you think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2019, 06:23:02 PM by CountValentine »
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Offline CountValentine

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Although maybe we're not really arguing here. I'm saying Attacks against Jews are pretty much entirely ignored and you're saying other attacks are under-reported. I guess that's not necessarily a contradiction.
We are pretty much on the same page. I would say it seems the reporting against Jews is way different in NCY than other places. I see anti-Semitic reports on the local news many times.
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Offline whYME

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Which one think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
I can't say one is more important, that's probably a bad choice of words, but I think higher % even with a lower number of total victims is probably more indicative of a bigger or more widespread problem.

Offline aygart

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Didn't see that but my guess by the numbers it would be Jewish by a big margin.
Which one you think is more important?
Higher % and less victims or lower % but more victims?
Definitely more victims but no reason for the two to be mutually exclusive.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline CountValentine

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I consider it to be a mostly social distinction.
From some of the comments I have seen over the years here I would say it is more than social.
Catholics have a saying when someone asks if they are a Christian. H*ll no we are Catholics. I am confident you get the point.  :)
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Offline CountValentine

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I can't say one is more important, that's probably a bad choice of words, but I think higher % even with a lower number of total victims is probably more indicative of a bigger or more widespread problem.
I agree but didn't know what other word to use. Your answer shows you get the point I was making.
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Offline ExGingi

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What is your basis for this? History says otherwise.

I'm a big believer in the one above.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline 12HRS

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I'm a big believer in the one above.

why here more than any other place?

Offline ExGingi

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why here more than any other place?

Why any other place more than here?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Dan

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I'm a big believer in the one above.
Jews in Europe without papers didn't believe? Little hishtadlus never hurt.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Jews in Europe without papers didn't believe? Little hishtadlus never hurt.
And everyone that had papers was saved?

I agree that hishtadlus never hurts. That's why I just got off the phone with a client rather than just sitting and learning.

But to say that the reason we have passports is for fear of antisemitism isn't accurate. There are several reasons why the US is very different than Europe. The world is also very different. Antisemitism is everywhere. I don't live in fear of it.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline shapsam

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Offline CountValentine

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Good thing it was a Christian and not a Catholic.
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Offline ExGingi

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How about comments from me? Would that suffice?
My original point and still is that violence against all minorities do not get the outcry they deserve. Translation: Nobody cares.
This position is trying to be twisted into I don't believe this is happening against Jews.

Just reread this, and realized how far off you are in introducing something that is just barely related into the conversation.

Let me ask you some clarification questions about your statement:

1. Is it the violence that "doesn't get the outcry it deserves", or is it the hatred?
2. How do you define "minorities"? Is it anything less than 50%?
3. If the violence is Black against Black, or Hispanic against Hispanic, is it hate/bias based?
4. If the hate and bias are non-violent but highly prevalent in an overt way, should there be an outcry?
5. What would you consider a level of "deserved" outcry?
6. If the violence or bigotry is against a majority is it OK?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Just reread this, and realized how far off you are in introducing something that is just barely related into the conversation.

Let me ask you some clarification questions about your statement:

1. Is it the violence that "doesn't get the outcry it deserves", or is it the hatred?
2. How do you define "minorities"? Is it anything less than 50%?
3. If the violence is Black against Black, or Hispanic against Hispanic, is it hate/bias based?
4. If the hate and bias are non-violent but highly prevalent in an overt way, should there be an outcry?
5. What would you consider a level of "deserved" outcry?
6. If the violence or bigotry is against a majority is it OK?
WOW!!!
AFAIK we are all on the same page now except you. You don't answer any of my questions and now come out of nowhere rapid firing questions at me. I will give you one thing. You have h*ll of a set.  :)
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