Author Topic: "Why Does No One Care About Violence Against Orthodox Jews?" (Interesting Article Split)  (Read 20979 times)

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/chris-hayes-examines-the-ubiquity-of-anti-semitism-in-america-67812933934

Chris Hayes on the money at the end of this piece.
WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent


WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!

Bingo

Online aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
WOW!!! Posting something from MSNBC. Many here will think I hacked your account even if I don't watch MSNBC.
Now to the piece. What some refuse to accept is this is not a D/R or L/R issue. This is a racist/anti-Sematic issue. These type of people come in all colors and political beliefs.
You said earlier words matter but also staying silent matters. So everyone needs to speak up!!!
What always makes the least sense is bigotry between minorities. No Jew or black etc. Should ever give in to any bigotry at all since they are next.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 608
  • Total likes: 386
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Late to the Party here.  w/r/t all of the arguments about different minorities and ethnic groups, a couple of points:

- Obviously, we should denounce hatred of anyone for their race, religion, or ethnicity.
- If you go by the FBI's hate crime statistics, even though there are more groups that have more hatred incidents directed towards them, Jews are still the 3rd largest total for 2017 (the last report available from the FBI), and the only higher groups are African Americans - who may have double the number of incidents but 8 times the population, and all Sexual Orientation incidents which are only 200 more than incidents against Jews - while the estimated LGBTQ+ community in the us is roughly 2x the Jewish Population

- Jews still make up nearly 60% of all anti-religious hate in the US.

- While 2017 has an uptick in reported incidents. The raise in in anti-Jewish Violence spiked up about 45%, while the other two groups above showed much smaller upticks against the previous 4-year average (anti sexual orientation incidents are up 3%, anti-blick up 16%)

- Incidentally, Anti-Muslim attacks, which jumped significantly between 14 and 15, went down last year.

Here is the source of the data - https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/ucr/publications#Hate-Crime%20Statistics

I realize that all hate/bias crimes are under reported, but I would have to imagine that the under reporting is somewhat proportional - unless you have a study that can prove otherwise.

The bottom line, we need to worry about hatred against all groups, but Anti-Semitism has taken off in a scary direction, and disproportionate to other hate crimes.


Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
The bottom line, we need to worry about hatred against all groups, but Anti-Semitism has taken off in a scary direction, and disproportionate to other hate crimes.
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
WOW!!!
AFAIK we are all on the same page now except you. You don't answer any of my questions and now come out of nowhere rapid firing questions at me. I will give you one thing. You have h*ll of a set.  :)
Deflection!
I'm not who you think I am.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Deflection!
If you have nothing worth of value to add to this discussion post that crap in the political thread.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Should ever give in to any bigotry at all since they are next.
We both know those that do give in bigotry believe it will stop at them.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7711
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive PlatinumŽ
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.

I have no factual basis for my belief or assumption, but my impression that the opposite is more accurate. Just look at @Yehuda57's description of his interaction with his neighbor. For Jews to report something it needs to get really bad.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
I have no factual basis for my belief or assumption, but my impression that the opposite is more accurate. Just look at @Yehuda57's description of his interaction with his neighbor. For Jews to report something it needs to get really bad.
No one can answer that question without pulling stuff out of their tuchus. The media has done a great job of sowing distrust between the police and black communities, so they likely also under-report.

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
The media has done a great job of sowing distrust between the police and black communities, so they likely also under-report.
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline grodnoking

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2014
  • Posts: 5847
  • Total likes: 767
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 17
    • View Profile
If you have nothing worth of value to add to this discussion post that crap in the political thread.
Deflection again!
I'm not who you think I am.

Online Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.

Of course there are valid reasons. But that's a discussion for another pc thread.

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 608
  • Total likes: 386
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Valid point and agree.
Do you believe Jews would report hate crimes more say so than blacks? This in no way is challenging the overall stats big picture.
....

I realize that all hate/bias crimes are under reported, but I would have to imagine that the under reporting is somewhat proportional - unless you have a study that can prove otherwise.


I don't know of any study that captures under reporting. I also didn't look deeper into the definition of what's being reported - does some random guy on the street calling me an f***ing jew count as a hate crime? Would I be expected to report that if he did? What if an AA or Hispanic person were called by a similar epithet?

I also think that in the last few years, because of the divisiveness in this country and because of the Me Too movement, people are more likely to report incidents than in the past, there has definitely been an uptick in reports - I can't promise you that it's a direct uptick in incidents, but given the disproportion in the Jewish numbers, you'd have to believe that it's indicative of a greater trend. (For example, the 3% increase in anti-Sexual Orientation attacks between 16 and 17 could be because of an uptick in reporting, or within the average of previous years, but a 50% increase? I can't imagine 300 more people were compelled to come forward).




Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
I also think that in the last few years, because of the divisiveness in this country and because of the Me Too movement, people are more likely to report incidents than in the past, there has definitely been an uptick in reports - I can't promise you that it's a direct uptick in incidents, but given the disproportion in the Jewish numbers, you'd have to believe that it's indicative of a greater trend. (For example, the 3% increase in anti-Sexual Orientation attacks between 16 and 17 could be because of an uptick in reporting, or within the average of previous years, but a 50% increase? I can't imagine 300 more people were compelled to come forward).
You need to be careful with numbers as they can be slanted to suit the person. Going from 1 to 2 is 100% increase but is meaningless.
Also can others chime in that don't live in NY? How about from Cleveland, LA, Miami, Chicago or other places?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 608
  • Total likes: 386
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Don't blame the media for this. Black distrust the police for 100+ different valid reasons. I would also say hate crimes to most blacks is part of life for them. There response is: So what else is new.

Again, what's the bar? Is stopping a black driver in a white neighborhood a hate crime? To what extent would a Black person report something as a hate crime, and how much greater, lower proportionately than a Jew?

About 250 blacks were killed by the police in 2017 (source - https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ - using 2017 to compare to the FBI's hate crimes) - that still doesn't bring the total anywhere near what the proportional total would need to be to compare to anti-semitic hate crimes.



Offline Yonah

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 608
  • Total likes: 386
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
You need to be careful with numbers as they can be slanted to suit the person. Going from 1 to 2 is 100% increase but is meaningless.
Also can others chime in that don't live in NY? How about from Cleveland, LA, Miami, Chicago or other places?

These are national numbers as reported by the FBI, which come from UCR reporting from local police departments. I don't mention in any of my posts that this is specific to NY, so where did you get that from?

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
About 250 blacks were killed by the police in 2017 (source - https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/ - using 2017 to compare to the FBI's hate crimes) - that still doesn't bring the total anywhere near what the proportional total would need to be to compare to anti-semitic hate crimes.
Please clarify this. You comparing deaths to being roughed up?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
I don't mention in any of my posts that this is specific to NY, so where did you get that from?
From the numerous post in this thread. I should have separate my question from quoting your post.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half