Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons

[Moshe123]

The point is that those who sent R' Tzvi Kahana to ask the question are simple בעלי מחלוקת and not בני תורה. The Rebbe clearly says that פרומע אידן cannot be מתנגדים. He brings R Chaim Volozhiner and Chaim Oizer as examples of true תלמידי חכמים who were not Chassidim, yet since they were true בעלי הלכה, never involved themselves in mschlokes and מדון ומריבה, but rather worked hand in hand with נשיאי חב"ד for the benefit of klal Yisroel.

The Rebbe specifically says he is NOT addressing the sleeping in the Sukkah issue. Everyone knows that the Mitteler Rebbe and his father the Alter Rebbe were experts in Halacha, yet they didn't sleep in the Sukkah. That should be sufficient for any true בן תורה!

They lived in a much much colder place.

[Eliyohu]

The point is that those who sent R' Tzvi Kahana to ask the question are simple בעלי מחלוקת and not בני תורה. The Rebbe clearly says that פרומע אידן cannot be מתנגדים. He brings R Chaim Volozhiner and Chaim Oizer as examples of true תלמידי חכמים who were not Chassidim, yet since they were true בעלי הלכה, never involved themselves in mschlokes and מדון ומריבה, but rather worked hand in hand with נשיאי חב"ד for the benefit of klal Yisroel.

The Rebbe specifically says he is NOT addressing the sleeping in the Sukkah issue. Everyone knows that the Mitteler Rebbe and his father the Alter Rebbe were experts in Halacha, yet they didn't sleep in the Sukkah. That should be sufficient for any true בן תורה!

Preface I'm not trying to start a fight or plain חוצפה , just honestly & simply trying understand

There are lots of Ta'anos that the "בני תורה" have on that but putting that all aside and putting aside the point of those who sent R Kahana was, what I never understood was why he couldn't just answer the question and ג'ענדיק why waste his time with for arguments sake someone who came to argue, for 23 minutes like that...
which honestly I have yet to see a (good) answer anywhere and  just because it was a dvar mefursam that the mittler rebbe did so and supposedly all those rabbis knew about it, 1. who says they never asked? 2. And even if they didn't why can't we ask and know now a days, he wasn't asking the facts he was asking the why it's called להגדיל תורה ולהדירה  not a new concept.
Just answer and send the ''חוצפיניעק" away?

[ExGingi]

Preface I'm not trying to start a fight or plain חוצפה , just honestly & simply trying understand

There are lots of Ta'anos that the "בני תורה" have on that but putting that all aside and putting aside the point of those who sent R Kahana was, what I never understood was why he couldn't just answer the question and ג'ענדיק why waste his time with for arguments sake someone who came to argue, for 23 minutes like that...
which honestly I have yet to see a (good) answer anywhere and  just because it was a dvar mefursam that the mittler rebbe did so and supposedly all those rabbis knew about it, 1. who says they never asked? 2. And even if they didn't why can't we ask and know now a days, he wasn't asking the facts he was asking the why it's called להגדיל תורה ולהדירה  not a new concept.
Just answer and send the ''חוצפיניעק" away?

Or in other words, why waste time on the facts when we can just get carried away with the distraction?

When you know that a question is being asked just for the sake of argument, and the motives behind it are as low as it gets, do you take the bait and answer the "question" or do you expose the truth?

Unfortunately, this keeps on going on to this very day. I was shown several months ago a letter addressed to R Yoel Kahan sent to 770 Eastern Parkway, by a young bochur in a yeshiva I will not mention. The letter was written in a way that should be a total embarrassment for the staff in that yeshiva. And that letter too mentioned not sleeping in the Sukkah. I wish I would have snapped a picture of that letter so you might grasp what this is all about.

[Eliyohu]

Or in other words, why waste time on the facts when we can just get carried away with the distraction?

When you know that a question is being asked just for the sake of argument, and the motives behind it are as low as it gets, do you take the bait and answer the "question" or do you expose the truth?

Unfortunately, this keeps on going on to this very day. I was shown several months ago a letter addressed to R Yoel Kahan sent to 770 Eastern Parkway, by a young bochur in a yeshiva I will not mention. The letter was written in a way that should be a total embarrassment for the staff in that yeshiva. And that letter too mentioned not sleeping in the Sukkah. I wish I would have snapped a picture of that letter so you might grasp what this is all about.

IMHO or rather when someone asks me such a question, what I'd do is just give the real answer and leave no room for it to still come up years later and move on, to the next person as if what ever the reality behind the question didn't exist and thus minimizing machlokes, meaning 2 things 1. The transparity alone leaves no room and 2.  The brushing it off as if there's no machlokes helps as we all know a machlokes needs 2 sides. And removing one of the points of contention between chabad and the עולם הישיבות would truly be on the way to be מאחד and bring the גאולה. 

[ExGingi]

....And removing one of the points of contention between chabad and the עולם הישיבות would truly be on the way to be מאחד and bring the גאולה.

I will try to remain civil here, so I will just ask what that means.

[Eliyohu]

I will try to remain civil here, so I will just ask what that means.

Let's not hide the fact that although in recent years it's not as strong as it used to be, and chabad is more "acceptable" to the litvish velt but even so, there are many things that chabad does or believes that are not acceptable to the litvish velt, all I'm saying is this would have been one less item and possibly of the larger items, (measured by how strongly the rebba felt was chutzpah, and how widely known in the litvish velt this "issue" is)

[ExGingi]

Let's not hide the fact that although in recent years it's not as strong as it used to be, and chabad is more "acceptable" to the litvish velt but even so, there are many things that chabad does or believes that are not acceptable to the litvish velt, all I'm saying is this would have been one less item and possibly of the larger items, (measured by how strongly the rebba felt was chutzpah, and how widely known in the litvish velt this "issue" is)

As far as being "acceptable", I suggest you try to research the famous (in certain circles) saying by R Yitzchok Dovid Groner a"h from Australia.

Even DJT said he will "accept" the outcome of the election.

[Eliyohu]

As far as being "acceptable", I suggest you try to research the famous (in certain circles) saying by R Yitzchok Dovid Groner a"h from Australia.

Even DJT said he will "accept" the outcome of the election.

בלשון נקי or a tad and probably a truckload of sarcasm
Depending what exact circles your from

[churnbabychurn]

People who don't understand the rebbes reaction to the question probably don't know the background of how much tzar he had gotten for his position already....

[Eliyohu]

Getting back on topic I honestly would like to understand the why if someone who understands can explain, the same fiber of my being that tries to understand המוצא מחבירו עליו הריאה, ייאוש שלא מדעת or more accurately what drove me to read through iirc 160 pages of R Tzadok Hakohen about being מלמד זכות on those who don't eat in the sukkah on שמ"ע  wants to understand this
Ps please provide an answer that applies in all areas of the world and to all people i.e. someone on the level of the Rebba and a regular chassid. (If possible something that before the alter rebba, all halchic authorities didn't know or felt otherwise and explicitly write that we must sleep in it and in fact a sukkah that you can't sleep in is posul)

[ExGingi]

Getting back on topic I honestly would like to understand the why if someone who understands can explain, the same fiber of my being that tries to understand המוצא מחבירו עליו הריאה, ייאוש שלא מדעת or more accurately what drove me to read through iirc 160 pages of R Tzadok Hakohen about being מלמד זכות on those who don't eat in the sukkah on שמ"ע  wants to understand this
Ps please provide an answer that applies in all areas of the world and to all people i.e. someone on the level of the Rebba and a regular chassid.

Come to my Sukkah any night (or especially ליל שמיני עצרת) and I promise not to let you leave without all honest questions honestly answered.

[Eliyohu]

Come to my Sukkah any night (or especially ליל שמיני עצרת) and I promise not to let you leave without all honest questions honestly answered.

I appreciate the invite but can I just get a straight answer... am I asking to much
I know Jews answer a question with a question I guess chabadskers answer with an invite   but just to confuse you ill be busy with hakafos lol

[ExGingi]

People who don't understand the rebbes reaction to the question probably don't know the background of how much tzar he had gotten for his position already....

Not sure what you mean by how much tzar he had gotten for his position but I would speculate that putting the conversation with R Kahana in context might refer to this: http://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php?title=%D7%91%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A8%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%AA%D7%A9%D7%9E%22%D7%98&mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop

[ExGingi]

I appreciate the invite but can I just get a straight answer... am I asking to much
I know Jews answer a question with a question I guess chabadskers answer with an invite   but just to confuse you ill be busy with hakafos lol

My Sukkah is open 24 hours. And there will be no problem doing hakofos in 770 all night long.

[chbochur]

Come to my Sukkah any night (or especially ליל שמיני עצרת) and I promise not to let you leave without all honest questions honestly answered.

a ch do?

[ExGingi]

a ch do?

In my Sukkah? Anytime! Even on Pesach!

[Brian93]

Come to my Sukkah any night (or especially ליל שמיני עצרת)

a ch do?

I like the sound of a ch ליל שמיני עצרת DO

[chbochur]

I like the sound of a ch ליל שמיני עצרת DO

Sounds like an idea

[chbochur]

In my Sukkah? Anytime! Even on Pesach!

I don't hear the farbreingin coming from your sukkah

[ExGingi]

I don't hear the farbreingin coming from your sukkah

Tonight was quiet due to a girls event in my house.