Topic Wiki

Lots of stringencies, but you can keep one day shabbos in hawaii without guilt.

SFs pros and cons list: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=10713.msg68565#msg68565
« Last edited by Dan on October 20, 2016, 08:05:15 PM »

Author Topic: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons  (Read 318993 times)

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #960 on: December 20, 2017, 12:02:15 PM »
Which is why there are so many different siddurim.
Such as?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #961 on: December 20, 2017, 12:03:31 PM »
Oh. We have the anshei keneses hagedola :)
Does Maoz Tzur go back that far?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yitrap

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Apr 2014
  • Posts: 3288
  • Total likes: 55
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #962 on: December 20, 2017, 12:13:36 PM »
Does Maoz Tzur go back that far?
Wiki says 13th century

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3784
  • Total likes: 465
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #963 on: December 20, 2017, 12:16:43 PM »
Does Maoz Tzur go back that far?
No, it's a pizmon. Point was more regarding having a founders siddur.
As an aside, Rav Moshe writes that the "truest" nusach is nusach Ashkenaz, although it's be surprised if there are not a variety of dissenting opinions

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 17395
  • Total likes: 14333
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #964 on: December 20, 2017, 12:17:03 PM »
Wiki says 13th century
That sounds right. Either way, it could not have been from the Anshei Knesses Hagdola since when they were around Chanuka had not yet occurred!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline thaber

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3784
  • Total likes: 465
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #965 on: December 20, 2017, 12:17:44 PM »


I fully apologize if I came across as being condescending. Was totally not my intention.

The title of this thread is "Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons". My addition about the benefit that Chabad has was meant as pointing out a pro, in that we don't have any doubts regarding what to say and what not. We (mostly) don't need to rely on outside sources.

It should also be taken in the entire context of DDF in general and this thread in particular (read the first few posts of this thread) which is with humor and a light heart.
Absolutely understood. One can be humorously condescending. I didn't take it all that seriously.

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4255
  • Total likes: 812
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #966 on: December 20, 2017, 12:22:53 PM »
No, it's a pizmon. Point was more regarding having a founders siddur.
As an aside, Rav Moshe writes that the "truest" nusach is nusach Ashkenaz, although it's be surprised if there are not a variety of dissenting opinions
dissenting opinion starting with chassam sofer

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7710
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #967 on: December 20, 2017, 12:25:38 PM »
Such as?
Just go into any judaica store and look at the various siddurim there. I doubt you will find 100% uniformity in text and nekkudos even within the same nusach.

True there are a few Nusach Ari siddurim that have minor divergences, and those are usually discussed and debated, rather than just taken nonchalantly.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7710
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #968 on: December 20, 2017, 12:27:38 PM »
dissenting opinion starting with chassam sofer
All currently used נוסחאות are influenced by the Ari.

All currently used נוסחאות have evolved into what they are today.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 4891
  • Total likes: 14679
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
    • Squilled
  • Location: Brooklyn
  • Programs: Official Dansdeals salad correspondent
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #969 on: December 20, 2017, 12:57:14 PM »
Simple answer is because the Alter Rebbe didn't put it in his siddur.

We have the benefit of a founder putting together a siddur. Don't need to rely on anyone else's siddurim. So we have clarity as to what to say, how, etc.

Ah, so that's why every non Chabad shul I've been in has been a picture of utter chaos and confusion with a total lack of clarity. In one corner people are davenning shacharis, in another musaf. All the while in the hallway there's a minyan maariv, and in the staircase a minyan mincha. The main minyan is singing L'cha Dodi.

Wait...

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4255
  • Total likes: 812
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #970 on: December 20, 2017, 12:59:37 PM »
Ah, so that's why every non Chabad shul I've been in has been a picture of utter chaos and confusion with a total lack of clarity. In one corner people are davenning shacharis, in another musaf. All the while in the hallway there's a minyan maariv, and in the staircase a minyan mincha. The main minyan is singing L'cha Dodi.

Wait...
alol

Competing with jj for best comment

Offline ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 15618
  • Total likes: 7710
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 19
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
  • Programs: בשורת הגאולה. From Exile to Redemption. GIYF. AAdvantage Executive Platinum®
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #971 on: December 20, 2017, 09:34:13 PM »

Ah, so that's why every non Chabad shul I've been in has been a picture of utter chaos and confusion with a total lack of clarity. In one corner people are davenning shacharis, in another musaf. All the while in the hallway there's a minyan maariv, and in the staircase a minyan mincha. The main minyan is singing L'cha Dodi.

Wait...
ALOL

See embroidery post in SMR thread.

There’s complete order in the “chaos”. It’s all the same nusach.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 7355
  • Total likes: 301
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #972 on: January 01, 2018, 09:11:09 AM »
dissenting opinion starting with chassam sofer
He was referring to nusach sefaradi btw

Offline gozalim

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 4255
  • Total likes: 812
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #973 on: January 01, 2018, 09:39:51 AM »
He was referring to nusach sefaradi btw
I was responding to thaber comment re Ashkenaz

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #974 on: September 11, 2018, 10:57:06 PM »
Half hour break/cake kiddush before shofar at 11
This is a thing?
So on a normal Shabbos I'm enjoying my cake before davening and on R"H I'm hungry while everyone who isn't Chabad has the opposite?
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline davidrotts63

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: May 2017
  • Posts: 7218
  • Total likes: 978
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 26
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: Hertz Gold, Hyatt Member, BA Blue, Ebay banned, Amazon Prime
Re: Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #975 on: September 11, 2018, 10:59:04 PM »


This is a thing?
So on a normal Shabbos I'm enjoying my cake before davening and on R"H I'm hungry while everyone who isn't Chabad has the opposite?

Sure bet it is.
Why don't you eat before davening on RH?
And with speeds like you have there is no reason for a break.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline justaregularguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 1482
  • Total likes: 899
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #976 on: September 11, 2018, 11:01:19 PM »
This is a thing?
So on a normal Shabbos I'm enjoying my cake before davening and on R"H I'm hungry while everyone who isn't Chabad has the opposite?
im just tickled pink that Dan quoted my post !☺️☺️😁😁
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline justaregularguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2014
  • Posts: 1482
  • Total likes: 899
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: Not Brooklyn
Re: Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #977 on: September 11, 2018, 11:03:21 PM »
Now to compose myself I heard the break has something to do with the fact that you shouldn’t fast past chatzos so we have a break.
🤷‍♂️
nothings impossible- the word itself says Im possible

Offline Dan

  • Administrator
  • Dansdeals Lifetime 50K Diamond Elite
  • **********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 67598
  • Total likes: 16909
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 16442
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: CLE
  • Programs: UA GS, AA EXP, DL Dirt, Hyatt Glob, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, DD Diamond, Blocked By @NeriaKraus
Re: Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #978 on: September 11, 2018, 11:03:48 PM »

Sure bet it is.
Why don't you eat before davening on RH?
And with speeds like you have there is no reason for a break.
We don't eat before hearing the Shofar. Never realized it was a Chabad thing.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline yossig

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Sep 2015
  • Posts: 954
  • Total likes: 136
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: brooklyn
Re: Re: Rosh Hashana davening...
« Reply #979 on: September 11, 2018, 11:09:23 PM »
We don't eat before hearing the Shofar. Never realized it was a Chabad thing.
IIRC it’s a halocha. The reason ppl are maikil is to have koach for musef