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« Last edited by Dan on October 20, 2016, 08:05:15 PM »

Author Topic: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons  (Read 319083 times)

Offline Yammer

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1160 on: September 17, 2018, 11:25:59 PM »
Whenever it starts, it takes forever to finish.
Like

Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1161 on: September 18, 2018, 12:51:51 AM »
משנה ברורה סימן תקפא ס"ק ג
Is that aveira of saying tehilim after davening and followed by a kadish(!!!) only allowed for goyim?

Offline thaber

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1162 on: September 20, 2018, 02:58:54 AM »
The issue is precisely the fact that chabbad tried/did institute this as a fundamental part of Seder tefilas shachris.

It has nothing to do with sinas chinam, or anything against anyone saying Tehilim all day long.
It is about having the authority to change Seder hatefila.

This is a sacred thing that shouldn't be adjusted on a whim. It is not just done in modern times.

I've said enough to present the opposing views... Still love y'all.
I'm a little confused. What's this? It's been going on for at least 20 years, so not a new or short term thing.
http://matzav.com/moetzes-gedolei-hatorah-issues-urgent-call-to-prayer/

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1163 on: September 20, 2018, 06:04:08 AM »
I'm a little confused. What's this? It's been going on for at least 20 years, so not a new or short term thing.
http://matzav.com/moetzes-gedolei-hatorah-issues-urgent-call-to-prayer/
There is a chihuv mideorayso to add extra prayers b'es tzara. Not sure what you mean when you say it's going on for years? It is only done when things are actively going on.

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1164 on: September 20, 2018, 07:58:46 AM »
There is a chihuv mideorayso to add extra prayers b'es tzara. Not sure what you mean when you say it's going on for years? It is only done when things are actively going on.
As I wrote above, in BMG they have been saying for years.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1165 on: September 20, 2018, 08:07:41 AM »
As I wrote above, in BMG they have been saying for years.
Not ime. Why would they?

They did say it for a year or so while the mashgiCh was sick

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1166 on: September 20, 2018, 08:12:30 AM »
Not ime. Why would they?

They did say it for a year or so while the mashgiCh was sick
When was the last time there wasn't a sick person to be saying for?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline thaber

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1167 on: September 20, 2018, 10:28:51 AM »
There is a chihuv mideorayso to add extra prayers b'es tzara. Not sure what you mean when you say it's going on for years? It is only done when things are actively going on.
As I wrote above, in BMG they have been saying for years.
Many many shuls say it every day, for years, whether or not something is going on.

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1168 on: September 20, 2018, 10:47:17 AM »
Was hoping some people would have had some introspection when they said al cheit for sinas chinam.
Oh well.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline chinagel

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1169 on: September 20, 2018, 10:52:52 AM »
Was hoping some people would have had some introspection when they said al cheit for sinas chinam.
Oh well.
Why is criticism, wrong or right, sinas chinam? 

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1170 on: September 20, 2018, 10:55:55 AM »
Why is criticism, wrong or right, sinas chinam? 
When it's based on a long pattern of hateful posts over many years.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline chinagel

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1171 on: September 20, 2018, 11:00:26 AM »
When it's based on a long pattern of hateful posts over many years.
So he definitely has a problem with chabad and thinks they do many things wrong. Still not sinas chinam. If he wouldn't stop to help a chabad guy change a flat, that's something else.

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1172 on: September 20, 2018, 11:18:46 AM »
So he definitely has a problem with chabad and thinks they do many things wrong. Still not sinas chinam. If he wouldn't stop to help a chabad guy change a flat, that's something else.
It's well past that IMHO, but to each their own. Perhaps we have different views on what constitutes ahavas yisroel and sinas chinam.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1173 on: September 20, 2018, 11:21:03 AM »
So he definitely has a problem with chabad and thinks they do many things wrong. Still not sinas chinam. If he wouldn't stop to help a chabad guy change a flat, that's something else.
According to some there is a chiyuv min hatorah to do that for someone you hate.

FTR, I do not see how his criticism, which i disagree with, constitutes sinas chinam.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1174 on: September 20, 2018, 11:22:41 AM »
According to some there is a chiyuv min hatorah to do that for someone you hate.

FTR, I do not see how his criticism, which i disagree with, constitutes sinas chinam.
It's not about criticism. Ya'll are missing the boat.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1175 on: September 20, 2018, 11:25:34 AM »
FTR, I do not see how his criticism, which i disagree with, constitutes sinas chinam.

I don't think @Dan is saying that any specific criticism constitutes sinas chinam, but rather that his criticism likely STEMS from sinas chinam.

See: http://chabadpedia.co.il/index.php/%D7%94%D7%97%D7%9C%D7%A6%D7%95_%D7%AA%D7%A8%D7%A0%22%D7%98 (I'll try to find a link to the actual text of the Ma'amar).

Here goes. If I find a better link I will post later.

For video shiurim on the ma'amar (in Hebrew) see:

« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 11:34:19 AM by ExGingi »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1176 on: September 20, 2018, 11:28:28 AM »
Why is criticism, wrong or right, sinas chinam?
In addition to @Dan's answer, there's a huge difference between respectfully questioning a practice and branding said practice - done daily by thousands of Yidden - as being against halacha.

Now, add to that that the practice was instituted by a tremendous tzadik about whom there is no time or space right here to detail his literal mesirus nefesh for teaching Torah. This tzadik was then accused of breaking halacha "on a whim."

The amount of restraint on the part of forum members in response to that is admirable.

But on top of that, even had it been respectful questioning, not abhorrent hate mongering, the question was answered numerous times. The Tehillim is said after davenning, and the Frierdiker Rebbe even made sure to insist that a kaddish be said after davenning and before Tehillim to remove any illusion of it being a part of davenning. The name of the practice, as referred to by Chassidim and by the Frierdiker Rebbe in describing the practice is "Tehillim AFTER davenning."

The fact that he continues to double down on his absurd "changing nusach hatefillah" claims, even in the face of hearing Tehillim is recited after davenning in BMG, is more than telling.

There are also many other non Chabad shuls who add Tehillim for the land and/or residents of Israel, the troops, sick people and any number of causes and reasons. Yet they didn't "change nusach hatefillah on a whim".

Upthread I satirically said how Chabad replaced shema and shemona esrei with Tehillim. Patently absurd, right? Well, wouldn't you know, a few posts later that idea was posted in all seriousness as a criticism.

Offline yitzgar

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1177 on: September 20, 2018, 11:56:06 AM »
In addition to @Dan's answer, there's a huge difference between respectfully questioning a practice and branding said practice - done daily by thousands of Yidden - as being against halacha.

Now, add to that that the practice was instituted by a tremendous tzadik about whom there is no time or space right here to detail his literal mesirus nefesh for teaching Torah. This tzadik was then accused of breaking halacha "on a whim."

The amount of restraint on the part of forum members in response to that is admirable.

But on top of that, even had it been respectful questioning, not abhorrent hate mongering, the question was answered numerous times. The Tehillim is said after davenning, and the Frierdiker Rebbe even made sure to insist that a kaddish be said after davenning and before Tehillim to remove any illusion of it being a part of davenning. The name of the practice, as referred to by Chassidim and by the Frierdiker Rebbe in describing the practice is "Tehillim AFTER davenning."

The fact that he continues to double down on his absurd "changing nusach hatefillah" claims, even in the face of hearing Tehillim is recited after davenning in BMG, is more than telling.

There are also many other non Chabad shuls who add Tehillim for the land and/or residents of Israel, the troops, sick people and any number of causes and reasons. Yet they didn't "change nusach hatefillah on a whim".

Upthread I satirically said how Chabad replaced shema and shemona esrei with Tehillim. Patently absurd, right? Well, wouldn't you know, a few posts later that idea was posted in all seriousness as a criticism.
You were being sarcastic before!?

Offline shaulyaakov

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1178 on: September 20, 2018, 01:20:32 PM »
There actually is a Halachic opinion (I don't remember the source), that we don't read Kesuvim (except for things in Nussach HaTefillah) on Shabbos from Laining of Shacharis until after laining at Mincha. That is an explaination I have heard for reading the Megillos on Shabbos Chol HaMoed before laining, when one would have logically expected them to be after laining (Tadir VeSheEino Tadir). I've never heard an objection to extra Tehillim on a weekday.

Whether that applied B'Zman HaZeh is a question.

 

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1179 on: September 20, 2018, 05:43:11 PM »
For what it's worth, I will say that even if someone had negative feelings of hatred towards a certain movement, outlook, following, belief system, or even religion; it does not at all mean that one has to hate the people in it/suscribing to it or following it.

So for eg if someone has a son who belongs to a deranged cult, he can hate the cult, and speak negativity about it for years, while loving his son more than ever before.