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« Last edited by Dan on October 20, 2016, 08:05:15 PM »

Author Topic: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons  (Read 101566 times)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1185 on: September 20, 2018, 08:50:03 PM »
While a person that holds and exercises sinas chinam hurts himself.
If it makes you feel better to think I "hate" chabbadskers or lubavitchers, that's fine with me.

We could argue all day about this.. ( If you really want to know how I feel, I'm going to share, that I'm convinced that chabbadskers harbor real sinas chinam to other FRUM Jews... But I don't really want to go there or start this whole discussion again. )

I'm sorry I mentioned this opposition to the tehillim. It is something that I thought opposition too was well established and understood. Didn't realize it was going to be a whole back and forth.

Offline Dan

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1186 on: September 20, 2018, 08:53:53 PM »
We could argue all day about this.. ( If you really want to know how I feel, I'm going to share, that I'm convinced that chabbadskers harbor real sinas chinam to other FRUM Jews... But I don't really want to go there or start this whole discussion again. )
Lol, but you just did. Nice.
Save your time, I don't answer PM. Post it in the forum and a dedicated DDF'er will get back to you as soon as possible.

Offline gozalim

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1187 on: September 20, 2018, 08:54:47 PM »
If it makes you feel better to think I "hate" chabbadskers or lubavitchers, that's fine with me.

We could argue all day about this.. ( If you really want to know how I feel, I'm going to share, that I'm convinced that chabbadskers harbor real sinas chinam to other FRUM Jews... But I don't really want to go there or start this whole discussion again. )

I'm sorry I mentioned this opposition to the tehillim. It is something that I thought opposition too was well established and understood. Didn't realize it was going to be a whole back and forth.
so the biases are all there but let's not get into them as I have no inclination to defend them. I thought the criticisms were well established and i could just refer to criticism #35 (and meanwhile I'll throw in #27 without discussing it)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1188 on: September 20, 2018, 08:56:47 PM »
I'm super torn, on one hand I don't want to ever look at this thread, and the other hand Yehuda57 Keeps checking in and I cave in to my desires.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1189 on: September 20, 2018, 09:11:55 PM »
I'm super torn, on one hand I don't want to ever look at this thread, and the other hand Yehuda57 Keeps checking in and I cave in to my desires.
It's all yours, I'm done with that topic

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1190 on: September 20, 2018, 10:05:33 PM »
For what it's worth, I will say that even if someone had negative feelings of hatred towards a certain movement, outlook, following, belief system, or even religion; it does not at all mean that one has to hate the people in it/suscribing to it or following it.
Even worse. The hatred is for its leader.

Quote

כל אחד בונה במה לעצמו, בתורה ובעבודה, על-פי דעתו ושכלו דווקא, ואין אחד מתאחד ומתחבר עם רעהו. כל אחד מבטל את הטוב שבעבודת חברו, וכל חיסרון שימצא בה - יגדיל וירחיב עשרת מונים (אף אם אינו אלא חיצוני, שאינו נוגע בגוף ובעצם עבודתו). התנהגות זו מעידה ששונא הוא את חברו בליבו ואינו חפץ כלל בטובתו. ומהי הסיבה לשנאה זו? ישותו והרגשת עצמו, או בלשון אחרת: העדר הביטול והעדר הנחת עצמותו


I'm sorry I mentioned this opposition to the tehillim. It is something that I thought opposition too was well established and understood. Didn't realize it was going to be a whole back and forth.

Sure. Such opposition is well established and understood. It can have one and only root, which is why the details of the argument donít merit a response, just like the Rebbe explained to Rabbi Kahana in a video I posted elsewhere on DDF.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1191 on: September 20, 2018, 10:21:37 PM »


כל אחד בונה במה לעצמו, בתורה ובעבודה, על-פי דעתו ושכלו דווקא, ואין אחד מתאחד ומתחבר עם רעהו. כל אחד מבטל את הטוב שבעבודת חברו, וכל חיסרון שימצא בה - יגדיל וירחיב עשרת מונים (אף אם אינו אלא חיצוני, שאינו נוגע בגוף ובעצם עבודתו). התנהגות זו מעידה ששונא הוא את חברו בליבו ואינו חפץ כלל בטובתו. ומהי הסיבה לשנאה זו? ישותו והרגשת עצמו, או בלשון אחרת: העדר הביטול והעדר הנחת עצמותו
/quote]]

+1 great quote. Who said it?

Offline aygart

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1192 on: September 20, 2018, 10:27:47 PM »


כל אחד בונה במה לעצמו, בתורה ובעבודה, על-פי דעתו ושכלו דווקא, ואין אחד מתאחד ומתחבר עם רעהו. כל אחד מבטל את הטוב שבעבודת חברו, וכל חיסרון שימצא בה - יגדיל וירחיב עשרת מונים (אף אם אינו אלא חיצוני, שאינו נוגע בגוף ובעצם עבודתו). התנהגות זו מעידה ששונא הוא את חברו בליבו ואינו חפץ כלל בטובתו. ומהי הסיבה לשנאה זו? ישותו והרגשת עצמו, או בלשון אחרת: העדר הביטול והעדר הנחת עצמותו
/quote]]

+1 great quote. Who said it?
Considering who posted it....
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1193 on: September 20, 2018, 10:34:06 PM »
Not sure why that's sinas chinam. It can just as easily be bias or stubbornness. Sinas chinam would be hating a fellow religious jew. I can think of many groups of jews that have criticisms on other groups but do not hate them. And some of those criticisms would be called by many others absurd.
Basically, Cbc thinks chabad is crazy and views them through that prism.
Dismissing thousands of yidden as "crazy"? Bias but not "sinas chinam".

Calling an established minhag Yisrael - which, need I remind you, Torah hi - a breach of halacha? Stubbornness, not "sinas chinam"

Being mevazeh a Talmid chacham berabim? Oh that is just CBC being CBC, no baseless sinah there.

You'll notice that in this very thread and in numerous others there is loads of questioning Chabad custom. How many got branded a soneh Yisrael?

One need not read through all the texts provided about this custom, the answer to the question is right there on the very first line. Literally. I've heard countless claims and accusations against Lubavitch. Never heard of Tehillim after davenning being an issue.

While it's generous of you to be melamed zchus, the prism I see is denigrating g'dolei Yisroel and generations of ehrliche Yidden based on nothing. That seems to me to be the very definition of sinas chinam.

I barely ever answer CBC seriously, it's almost always jokes from me - for the reasons @ExGingi mentioned. But you wanted to know why some would find his "biased prism" hateful, so here is a look into one instance, without delving into his post history.

There is a story I heard about a kindergarten aged child of Rabbi Slavaticki in Antwerp, and I don't know how true it is nor do I care. A non-Chabad classmate said to her, "my father doesn't like your Rebbe." To which she responded, "But my Rebbe loves your father."
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1194 on: September 20, 2018, 10:36:47 PM »
I'm super torn, on one hand I don't want to ever look at this thread, and the other hand Yehuda57 Keeps checking in and I cave in to my desires.
Dude, you need to get out more.
Quote from: ExGingi
[Stating things eloquently] seems to be Yehuda57's job around here :)

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1195 on: September 20, 2018, 10:37:28 PM »
A non-Chabad classmate said to her, "my father doesn't like your Rebbe." To which she responded, "But my Rebbe loves your father."
she stole it from @meshugener 's signature.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1196 on: September 20, 2018, 10:39:21 PM »


כל אחד בונה במה לעצמו, בתורה ובעבודה, על-פי דעתו ושכלו דווקא, ואין אחד מתאחד ומתחבר עם רעהו. כל אחד מבטל את הטוב שבעבודת חברו, וכל חיסרון שימצא בה - יגדיל וירחיב עשרת מונים (אף אם אינו אלא חיצוני, שאינו נוגע בגוף ובעצם עבודתו). התנהגות זו מעידה ששונא הוא את חברו בליבו ואינו חפץ כלל בטובתו. ומהי הסיבה לשנאה זו? ישותו והרגשת עצמו, או בלשון אחרת: העדר הביטול והעדר הנחת עצמותו
+1 great quote. Who said it?

It's in the links I post above.

IMNSHO when I post links they are usually worth following.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1197 on: September 20, 2018, 10:40:02 PM »
Dude, you need to get out more.
Nah. There is no way this thread is good for me.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1198 on: September 20, 2018, 10:46:24 PM »
I'm super torn, on one hand I don't want to ever look at this thread, and the other hand Yehuda57 Keeps checking in and I cave in to my desires.

This thread should go back to its hilarious origins. Credit needs to be given to @Yehuda57 for inserting wit and humor. But please don't answer any arguments. It's just pointless and against the spirit of this thread.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1199 on: September 20, 2018, 10:47:35 PM »


This thread should go back to its hilarious origins. Credit needs to be given to @Yehuda57 for inserting wit and humor. But please don't answer any arguments. It's just pointless and against the spirit of this thread.

Hence why I shouldn't be here, as well as why I can't control myself.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch