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Lots of stringencies, but you can keep one day shabbos in hawaii without guilt.

SFs pros and cons list: http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=10713.msg68565#msg68565
« Last edited by Dan on October 20, 2016, 08:05:15 PM »

Author Topic: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons  (Read 319067 times)

Offline MeirS

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1260 on: September 23, 2018, 07:04:42 PM »
In 3...2...1...
Damn, you NOT following EDT...
Or, I'm following EDT I'm just not on the east coast.

Gut Yom Tov!

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1261 on: September 25, 2018, 09:21:31 PM »
6-36 haddassim - chabad.
Pro or con?
@churnbabychurn - can you find a poisek who says it's Baal toisif?
Found a bunch ... IF they are not all kosher.

Do you make a tnaiy that you only intend to use the kosher ones for the mitzvah and the rest should be considered like nothing?

Offline gozalim

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1262 on: September 26, 2018, 12:21:15 AM »
Are kosher Hadassim so hard to find?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1263 on: September 26, 2018, 01:04:11 AM »
Are kosher Hadassim so hard to find?
שרא ליה מריה, השתא עבות שלשה לא משגחינן, שלשים וששה מיבעיא???


Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1264 on: September 26, 2018, 03:33:38 AM »
Found a bunch ... IF they are not all kosher.

Do you make a tnaiy that you only intend to use the kosher ones for the mitzvah and the rest should be considered like nothing?
Mechaber 651:15 - one may add to the arovos and hadasim, but the "medakdkim" do not add.
MB 651:59 explains that the torah clearly writes a plural language by them, implying that we may add
Biur Halacha explains that the medakdkim are worried about arovos because of the rambam holding its assur, but hadasim should not be a problem. He says maybe al pi sod there's somethibg, but halacikaly it's perfectly fine.

Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1265 on: September 26, 2018, 03:36:40 AM »
ערוך השלחן תרנא, ב
על ההדסים והערבות – יכול להוסיף כמה שירצה. דאילו היה כתיב ''שלושה'' ו''שתים'' מפורש – לא היה אפשר להוסיף. אבל השתא דלא כתיב מפורש, אלא לשון ריבוי – יכול להוסיף. וכך היו נוהגים הקדמונים משום נוי /right]

רמב"ם
 ואם רצה להוסיף בהדסים כדי שתהיה אגודה גדולה – מוסיף, ונוי מצוה הוא 

Offline Definitions

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1266 on: September 26, 2018, 03:53:54 AM »
A little off topic. This reminds me of a story I heard (I think it's true).

I don't remember if it was a chabad guy but I'd imagine it was  :)
A guy was out on sukkos trying to get non religious people to shake lulav on sukkos. He meets a guy and asks him if he's Jewish and would like to shake the lulav.

The guy tells him he is but he doesn't want to shake the lulav. Naturally he asks him why not. So he says that he's an atheist so if he shakes the lulav it will be chamesh miinim and he doesn't want to be oiver on Baal toisef.
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Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1267 on: September 26, 2018, 08:58:48 AM »
Mechaber 651:15 - one may add to the arovos and hadasim, but the "medakdkim" do not add.
MB 651:59 explains that the torah clearly writes a plural language by them, implying that we may add
Biur Halacha explains that the medakdkim are worried about arovos because of the rambam holding its assur, but hadasim should not be a problem. He says maybe al pi sod there's somethibg, but halacikaly it's perfectly fine.
Did conveniently not include the Shar hatzion 15 on purpose?

Offline daybyday

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1268 on: September 26, 2018, 11:20:26 AM »
Just found out that Chabad eats in the sukkah rain or shine. That was a tough one in NY area this past yom tov.

Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1269 on: September 26, 2018, 12:29:08 PM »
Did conveniently not include the Shar hatzion 15 on purpose?
No. Was using online version which didn't have it. Will check soon.
My point is to stop slamming minhagim just because they are done by chabad.
ETA: which Shar hatzion?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:37:05 PM by koplonko »

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1270 on: September 26, 2018, 12:33:11 PM »
No. Was using online version which didn't have it. Will check soon.
My point is to stop slamming minhagim just because they are done by chabad.
I never slammed any minhag. You and others seem to need to respond overly aggressively to litterally anything...

Either way, I am actually not saying that the Shar hatzion applies to kosher min of haddasim that happen to be shotim.. but if someone asked if there are "any" veiws that there is a chashas basl tosif, yes there are plenty of reshonim and achronim who express concern, especially and primarily when the extra hadasim are not kosher..

Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1271 on: September 26, 2018, 12:52:42 PM »
I never slammed any minhag. You and others seem to need to respond overly aggressively to litterally anything...

Either way, I am actually not saying that the Shar hatzion applies to kosher min of haddasim that happen to be shotim.. but if someone asked if there are "any" veiws that there is a chashas basl tosif, yes there are plenty of reshonim and achronim who express concern, especially and primarily when the extra hadasim are not kosher..
1. Which shar hatzioyon?
2. Many rishonim and achronim hold many things, and SHULCHAN ARUCH along with POSKIM (nosei keilim, s"a harav, mishna berura etc) are the ones that PASKEN halacha. They were not too concerned....
Just to put things in perspective: the Ravad held that it's okay to say that hashem has a body....
3. Study a bit of Jewish literature, specifically on the subject of "minhag", and it's holiness.
4. Siddur mahari kopel and shu"t avnei tzedek discuss taking 9 hadasim, the Kolbo writes about 68/69 hadasim!!!!!

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1272 on: September 26, 2018, 01:12:16 PM »
Did conveniently not include the Shar hatzion 15 on purpose?

Did you "conveniently" ignore:
36 mehudar ones here.

But when someone asks whether you found any source that prohibits the minhag you bring an IRRELEVANT opinion. Irrelevant, because as YOU stated only applies if the additionals aren't kosher, which is obviously not the case.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline tzifanya54

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1273 on: September 26, 2018, 01:16:25 PM »
Just found out that Chabad eats in the sukkah rain or shine. That was a tough one in NY area this past yom tov.
Anyone know why? Is it just rain? Or will they eat there under any other mitztayer situation?

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1274 on: September 26, 2018, 01:18:51 PM »
Just found out that Chabad eats in the sukkah rain or shine. That was a tough one in NY area this past yom tov.
Only issue was 2nd day seudah.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline koplonko

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1275 on: September 26, 2018, 01:21:01 PM »
Anyone know why? Is it just rain? Or will they eat there under any other mitztayer situation?
Been discussed up thread on a yearly basis,  ayin shom ba'arucha. @churnbabychurn will tell us what level of avoda zara it is

Offline tzifanya54

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1276 on: September 26, 2018, 01:22:48 PM »
Been discussed up thread on a yearly basis,  ayin shom ba'arucha. @churnbabychurn will tell us what level of avoda zara it is
In a nutshell? Just curious and reading this thread (especially that many pages) gives me a headache...

Offline davidrotts63

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1277 on: September 26, 2018, 01:26:23 PM »
Been discussed up thread on a yearly basis,  ayin shom ba'arucha. @churnbabychurn will tell us what level of avoda zara it is
I met a chabad friend in a shul sukka on the 1st night, he came to take a drink of seltzer because his parents sukka was already covered. (Was interesting to see how serious he was about being chabad.)
He told me the reason why chabad does it (some thing about not doing mitzvos for schar rather because of chavivos) which (without issurim) didn't sit to well with me.
(Quit) pulling out the flowers, and watering the weeds. -Peter Lynch

Offline CS1

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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1278 on: September 26, 2018, 01:31:12 PM »
I met a chabad friend in a shul sukka on the 1st night, he came to take a drink of seltzer because his parents sukka was already covered. (Was interesting to see how serious he was about being chabad.)
He told me the reason why chabad does it (some thing about not doing mitzvos for schar rather because of chavivos) which (without issurim) didn't sit to well with me.

nice summary. love for hashem rather than fear. It's how we connect. Like family -- Very positive; great message for teens, too.
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Re: Chabad Minhagim: Pros & Cons
« Reply #1279 on: September 26, 2018, 01:32:28 PM »
I met a chabad friend in a shul sukka on the 1st night, he came to take a drink of seltzer because his parents sukka was already covered. (Was interesting to see how serious he was about being chabad.)
He told me the reason why chabad does it (some thing about not doing mitzvos for schar rather because of chavivos) which (without issurim) didn't sit to well with me.

It's actually when the aibershter wants to have some private quality time with his favorite kids/soldiers, he pours some rain so that they are the only ones still happy to stay in the Sukkah.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan