Author Topic: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.  (Read 36044 times)

Offline PlatinumGuy

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This thread will attempt to address all issues regarding secular education. There is much uncertainty out there - Yeshiva guys trying to go to Graduate school, Girls considering online classes for credits while in Seminary, and yes, the shvigger trying to see if her son-in-law-to-be is in a good school.

To increase the information in this thread, please direct any one you know in the parsha to this thread. Direct link to this thread http://bit.ly/sgrT76

Many thanks to HN for compiling this list.

General tips for Yeshivah guys applying to Graduate School:

I. Who should I use for letters of recommendation?

Standard TLS is that you use professors. You will probably need to use rebbeim. But be creative. Don’t use the rosh yeshiva just because his title is “Dean”, if he doesn’t write well or is too busy. If you’re in BMG, consider your rosh chaburah, etc. Make sure you choose people who can write well, and will write good things about you.

II. Does it matter how long I stay in Yeshiva? Does working on my BTL for 9 years look bad to Adcomms?


You need to figure out how you are going to answer that question for job interviews anyway, so you may as well do that now. I know the real answer: You learned because you believe it is a mitzva, but now your kids are hungry. You can say that.
Additionally, you need to explain this outright. If this is not in your personal statement, you should probably write an addendum, especially if it is 8+ years. (I was 10).

III. What should I put in my resume?

You need to be creative. A lot of what we do is very impressive, but we tend to play it down because we all do it. Play down the yeshivishness of each program if you can. Your SEED program doesn’t have to be about kiruv; I call myself an “adult educator” and say I “Provided adult education lectures and tutoring on topics of Jewish law including family law”; and “Established relationships between community members and local institutions.”
I have a friend who was a rosh chabura in a major yeshiva. I told him he was supervising graduate students in their Talmudic research. You need to really think about what you are going to put.

LAW SCHOOL:

Many frum people in law schools, did their undergrad in rabbinical schools. These schools have a fairly non-traditional curriculum, and generally don't have much in the way of formal testing. Thus, the grading is a bit looser, and based on general observations.

I often see people looking for advice on this, and usually can't get it. So, this thread is dedicated to those questions, and the accumulated knowledge about it. I will begin with my opinions, which are by no means assumed correct. Please enlighten us all with your personal experience.

I. Will my 175+ LSAT get me in to everywhere lawschoolpredictor says it will with my “4.0 GPA”?

No. You will be strongly considered by every school, but the rest of your application had better be stellar. Generally, we assume that the rest of your application, which most of TLS makes fun of, will actually matter a lot.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that results are very mixed. I have heard that some schools don’t really know how to evaluate us, so they take just 1 a year. (And I have never heard of anyone getting into NYU.) Fordham seems to be overapplied to, so they can probably be very selective.

II. Personal Statement.
Spend time on this, and hire a consultant service. Really. This is all they have to judge you on, besides your LSAT score. Come across as confident and determined. Tell them why you want to go to law school. Convince them you will be happy and a good student.

Note, that all the stuff we think sounds impressive, (your talmudic research, your chaburahs, your legal analysis, your knowing how to read fluent aramaic), might well be worthless. You should play it up, as best you can. But don’t assume they haven’t seen it before. They have. And I don’t really know how they view it.

III. What other mistakes do we make.

Apply early. Notice how everyone here is trying to apply in September. That is what you should do.
Think outside NYC. Really. There are (arguably) 14 national law schools, and 11 of them are in places a yeshiva guy could live. Don’t overlook Chicago, NU, Michigan, Berkeley, Stanford. NU seems to be ok with yeshiva guys who don’t have work experience if you have a few years after “undergrad”. You will be better off at Michigan than at Fordham even though your chavrusah’s cousin went to Fordham and now is at SullCrom.

V. How well will I do in Law School?


The results are mixed. Rumor has it that Fordham did a study and found that we group around the top and the bottom, instead of a normal distribution as would be expected. But who knows. If you have a writing problem, recognize that.

VI. Will going to FDU or Touro  increase increase my chances for gaining admission (over just using my BTL)?

Probably. But, consider carefully what will happen to your GPA. If you will go to touro and get a 3.3, you’re probably better off in yeshiva. Especialy if you happen to nail the LSAT.

VII. I also want to mention, that in my opinion, our best advantage is that we are disciplined in terms of hours of study. Just keep your yeshiva schedule. In 1L, I did 9-7 every day including sunday, and left the library about 2 hours before shabbos. Yontiff will be murder, but we all survive it.

VIII. Will going into law increase my chances of gaining a better shidduch? Does saying I plan on going to law school help? Are there law schools that hurt my shidduchim chances?hey y did u do that
Yes. Law school increases your value exponentially, and the golden standard is Fordham, which beats GeorgeTown or Harvard hands down.

IX. The 'FlyerTalk' of Law schools is a site called TopLawSchools.com. When posting there, please consider the following notice:

b’vakasha. tizaher mah sheatah kotev kan. Zeh ha’internet. Al tichtov chillul Hashem, v’al tichtov mah sh’tiheh mazik l’hachaverim shelcha.
U’zchor sheyesh גוגל טרנסלט.


BUSINESS SCHOOL:

It is widely believed BTL's have a harder time with Business school acceptance: please share your knowledge here

There are also many Business schools that require work experience. For some this can be avoided by enrolling in a JD program first.


This thread began here http://www.dansdeals.com/forums/index.php?topic=2643.75 you might find more info there
« Last Edit: October 27, 2011, 09:39:58 PM by PlatinumGuy »
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Offline dealvr

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 09:22:06 PM »
This is going to be a great thread.
Well written OP.
B-Schools will generally put a strong emphasis on your work experience.
Hey there! I am using WhatsApp.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 09:25:42 PM »
This is going to be a great thread.
Well written OP.
Many thanks to HN for compiling this list.
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Offline dealvr

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 09:35:25 PM »
Fine, I won't give you any credit.
Hey there! I am using WhatsApp.

Offline yaakov s

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 10:34:03 PM »
Who is HN? Henche?

Online henche

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 02:27:46 AM »
Who is HN? Henche?

I don't know. Check the acronyms thread.

Offline yaakov s

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 11:54:41 AM »
I don't know. Check the acronyms thread.
Thanks

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2011, 12:15:27 PM »
Anyone know hot to get a bunch of practice LSAT's for free/cheap?
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Offline yaakov s

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2011, 10:51:27 PM »
Anyone know hot to get a bunch of practice LSAT's for free/cheap?
Barnes and Noble/Starbucks , great place to study with tons of free books.

IIRC u live in Israel so I'm not sure that helps.

Online henche

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2011, 10:53:43 PM »
Anyone know hot to get a bunch of practice LSAT's for free/cheap?

There isn't such a great used market, since you need to write on the pages to do it properly.

I bought a used book on amazon which said it was missing the cover. Well, after I finished all 10, I put all the scores together to average them, and noticed there were only 8! It was missing the front cover, and the first 2!
So I filed an A-Z guarantee, and got all the money back. Which was nice.

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 07:31:20 PM »
If you got through 8 and thought you did 10 you may have an issue with the LSAT.

Online henche

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2011, 09:34:18 PM »
If you got through 8 and thought you did 10 you may have an issue with the LSAT.

Yes, the games were always my worst section.

Online henche

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 12:17:52 AM »
I just got banned from Top-law-schools again- this time for a month. I can deal with that, last time it was permanent. But they put the ban on my IP. Luckily, I'm not at home, so it makes no difference.

Offline myb821

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2011, 12:23:01 AM »
Y u get banned

Online henche

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Re: Master Thread: Education - College, Yeshiva, Seminary. Post Here.
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2011, 12:28:25 AM »
Y u get banned
edit: it was for alting. A friend of mine got banned tonight also after we posted on the same thread, for alting. They are crazy.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 12:41:57 AM by henche »