Hyperloop

[Ergel]

I'm so confused. They don't have a working prototype at even half the speeds they are talking about here

[ExGingi]

I'm so confused. They don't have a working prototype at even half the speeds they are talking about here

It ain't called Hyperloop for nothing. Lots of hype going around in a loop.

[Ergel]

It ain't called Hyperloop for nothing. Lots of hype going around in a loop.

I think your sensationalism is still annoying. I think you would have said the same thing about electric cars 3 years ago.
I think this very well may be the future of travel, however, 2028 seems extremely unlikely

[ExGingi]

I think your sensationalism is still annoying. I think you would have said the same thing about electric cars 3 years ago.
I think this very well may be the future of travel, however, 2028 seems extremely unlikely

You're entitled to your thoughts, though I never thought of my comment as being sensationalist, realism would be more descriptive IMHO.

At least we can agree that 2028 is extremely unlikely. Can we also agree that autonomous cars and trucks are likely to become a reality before anything resembling hyperloop?

Would someone pointing out Jules Verne as science fiction been wrong at his time? I don't think Jules Verne himself might have thought differently. And while humans reaching the moon was almost 100 years after he published his novel, and the technology was much different, he certainly did seem to "predict" something.

I have no problem with the idea of Hyperloop, and maybe it might turn into reality at a certain point, and possibly there will be some other idea that will overtake it as more feasible, IDK. However talking about it as a reality that's around the corner and publishing a feasibility study that concludes that the benefits will justify the costs (when they don't even have an idea what the costs might be, since nothing similar was ever built) is nothing but hype in my dictionary.

[Dan]

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/12/hyperloop-supporters-release-study-advocating-prep-work-to-build-cleveland-pittsburgh-chicago-route.html

[Ergel]

You're entitled to your thoughts, though I never thought of my comment as being sensationalist, realism would be more descriptive IMHO.

At least we can agree that 2028 is extremely unlikely. Can we also agree that autonomous cars and trucks are likely to become a reality before anything resembling hyperloop?

Would someone pointing out Jules Verne as science fiction been wrong at his time? I don't think Jules Verne himself might have thought differently. And while humans reaching the moon was almost 100 years after he published his novel, and the technology was much different, he certainly did seem to "predict" something.

I have no problem with the idea of Hyperloop, and maybe it might turn into reality at a certain point, and possibly there will be some other idea that will overtake it as more feasible, IDK. However talking about it as a reality that's around the corner and publishing a feasibility study that concludes that the benefits will justify the costs (when they don't even have an idea what the costs might be, since nothing similar was ever built) is nothing but hype in my dictionary.

Of course autonomous cars are going to be a reality way before the Hyperloop, they are practically already here.
I don't think Hyperloop is a hundred or 50 years away. I think 15-20 years is very reasonable. As opposed to autonomous cars which are 5 years away and in 30 years kids will think it was crazy you ever drove a car

[aygart]

I'm so confused. They don't have a working prototype at even half the speeds they are talking about here

I think your sensationalism is still annoying. I think you would have said the same thing about electric cars 3 years ago.
I think this very well may be the future of travel, however, 2028 seems extremely unlikely

[ExGingi]

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2019/12/hyperloop-supporters-release-study-advocating-prep-work-to-build-cleveland-pittsburgh-chicago-route.html

Did anyone here read the study yet?

[dealfinder11]

Of course autonomous cars are going to be a reality way before the Hyperloop, they are practically already here.
I don't think Hyperloop is a hundred or 50 years away. I think 15-20 years is very reasonable. As opposed to autonomous cars which are 5 years away and in 30 years kids will think it was crazy you ever drove a car

As someone has been avidly following the advent of autonomous driving for many years, and have been fairly bullish on the timing of their arrival, i'm not sure if this is true. Self driving cars have had a number of setbacks in recent years and i'm starting to believe we may end up with more semi autonomous cars in the near term rather than fully autonomous. Too early to tell how smoothly Hyperloop's development is going to be, however i view their current (known) hurdles to be significantly smaller than fully autonomous "level 5" self driving .   

[ExGingi]

As someone has been avidly following the advent of autonomous driving for many years, and have been fairly bullish on the timing of their arrival, i'm not sure if this is true. Self driving cars have had a number of setbacks in recent years and i'm starting to believe we may end up with more semi autonomous cars in the near term rather than fully autonomous. Too early to tell how smoothly Hyperloop's development is going to be, however i view their current (known) hurdles to be significantly smaller than fully autonomous "level 5" self driving .   

IMHO one of the biggest roadblocks (no pun intended) to the widespread use of autonomous cars is the insurance/liability issue. That would have to be worked out before states start allowing these on public roads. It will require significant legislation, which will likely run way behind the technological advances.

And indeed, THAT specific MAJOR hurdle isn't an issue for hyperloop, where the hurdles are technological and economical.

[Ergel]

IMHO one of the biggest roadblocks (no pun intended) to the widespread use of autonomous cars is the insurance/liability issue. That would have to be worked out before states start allowing these on public roads. It will require significant legislation, which will likely run way behind the technological advances.

I think the public will understand that the longer autonomous vehicles are kept off the road, the more people will die in unnecessary accidents and that we will figure this out quickly

[ExGingi]

Interesting slides from a presentation by a party with significant interest in the liability issue of autonomous cars:

https://www.swissre.com/dam/jcr:cdb7c0c4-9919-4177-8299-4e0ea16c9e03/3+-+AUTONOMOUS+CARS+AND+LIABILITY+break+out+session+presentation.pdf

Two noteworthy quotes:

Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics“: science fiction becomes a reality …. 78 years later !

Defining the algorithms that will guide the AVs will be a formidable challenge in front of these “moral dilemmas” !!

Lots of articles here.

And then there's https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/03/can-you-sue-a-robocar/556007/

[grodnoking]

IMHO one of the biggest roadblocks (no pun intended) to the widespread use of autonomous cars is the insurance/liability issue. That would have to be worked out before states start allowing these on public roads. It will require significant legislation, which will likely run way behind the technological advances.

And indeed, THAT specific MAJOR hurdle isn't an issue for hyperloop, where the hurdles are technological and economical.

Or tesla can continue to roll out features that have no legislation AGAINST it, without informing anyone first.

If tesla first asked the government for permission for level 3 autonomy, we wouldn't have it now. Not Tesla level 3 or any lane assist type program in any car.

[aygart]

Or tesla can continue to roll out features that have no legislation AGAINST it, without informing anyone first.

If tesla first asked the government for permission for level 3 autonomy, we wouldn't have it now. Not Tesla level 3 or any lane assist type program in any car.

What will happen when Tesla's autonomy kills someone remains to be seen

[Dan]

What will happen when Tesla's autonomy kills someone remains to be seen

It has killed (drivers). The argument is that it kills fewer than would otherwise die.

[aygart]

It has killed (drivers). The argument is that it kills fewer than would otherwise die.

That is great for the ethical question. Wha about the lawsuits.

[Dan]

That is great for the ethical question. Wha about the lawsuits.

For now, Tesla officially says you need to keep your hand on the wheel in autopilot at all times. Nobody does this, but drivers estates automatically lose in court as Tesla knows if your hand was on the wheel.

[aygart]

For now, Tesla officially says you need to keep your hand on the wheel in autopilot at all times. Nobody does this, but drivers estates automatically lose in court as Tesla knows if your hand was on the wheel.

That won't help much once it is someone not bound by that.

[Dan]

That won't help much once it is someone not bound by that.

Right, but that's an argument that will only come when L4/L5 is feasible.

My guess is that Tesla will keep the hand on wheel requirement even when they come out with L4 as a CYA rule.
L5 is still a long way away.

[aygart]

Right, but that's an argument that will only come when L4/L5 is feasible.

My guess is that Tesla will keep the hand on wheel requirement even when they come out with L4 as a CYA rule.
L5 is still a long way away.

Why? Someone hit by the Tesla is not bound by that.