Author Topic: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!  (Read 2768 times)

Offline as2

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2021, 05:27:16 PM »
Most do. It is called driver education.I hope it is more than IL, which is a joke.
Driver education is not required anywhere AFAIK. Additionally, it clearly doesn't do much for many. Again, where do you draw the line. IL is of the toughest on gun laws. 16 hours of training can be a joke, but it's a start. Like a car, or any other dangerous piece of machinery, it's up to the operator to keep his skills up to par.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2021, 05:33:06 PM »
Driver education is not required anywhere AFAIK.
Do you know anyone that didn't train or study for their driver license?
KR had someone buy an AR15 for him because it looked cool.
You don't see anything wrong with this picture?
I could be wrong but I don't think the founding fathers had this in mind for 2A. 
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Offline as2

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2021, 05:48:05 PM »
Do you know anyone that didn't train or study for their driver license?
KR had someone buy an AR15 for him because it looked cool.
You don't see anything wrong with this picture?
I could be wrong but I don't think the founding fathers had this in mind for 2A.
I know many people who never took Drivers Ed. I also know people who did the equivalent of reading the NRAs handgun guide before getting their license. 
(this is for you @yakov116 )
I believe in almost every post I have tried to make it clear that I very much see something wrong. That doesn't mean we can/should stop it. With freedom comes cost. I have no doubt if we went communist we could solve our gun problems. Is that a healthy solution? I think we agree it's not. We both agree there is an issue, but at what cost will you solve it.

We can point to individual cases that can prove anything from 'arm anyone with a heartbeat' to 'don't let a single gun on the street period'.


bottom line is, we have a system that will always have good and bad in it, and our goal is to eliminate as much bad as possible but only while factoring how much good we are eliminating, and creating a proper balance. I think we agree on most of this, we're just talking it out.

I think this is where a lot of the people who you are arguing with regarding vaccine mandates are coming from too. While some actually believe that vaccines are bad and kill and all that junk, many believe vaccines are great and work, but the implementation of a mandate, or infringement on liberties may not be excusable even if the root of the intentions is correct. I'm not here to have that discussion, just to correlate the 2.

I believe I have what to learn from you with regards to guns, but I know a bit myself as well. It's a discussion that will never be perfect and will never please everyone. People will die regardless of what we do, but at the very least, we can make sure the people who die, were killed rightfully.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2021, 06:45:15 PM »
I know many people who never took Drivers Ed.
Ok but not what I asked.  ;)

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Offline as2

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2021, 06:47:30 PM »
Ok but not what I asked.  ;)
I'm sorry. Yes, I do know of people who didn't study or train for their drivers test.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2021, 06:50:25 PM »
I'm sorry. Yes, I do know of people who didn't study or train for their drivers test.
They just got in the car and new how to drive and do things like parallel park?
How did they pass the rules of the road written part?

Guess I need to get out more.  :)
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Offline as2

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2021, 06:54:09 PM »
They just got in the car and new how to drive and do things like parallel park?
How did they pass the rules of the road written part?

Guess I need to get out more.  :)
They winged it. Some probably took a car for a spin once or twice (in this case, I'd equate it to maybe putting 50-100 rounds through a random rental at the range).
To be fair, that rules of the road test is a joke. They ask questions like "when approaching an intersection, do you:

A. Slam on the gas
B. Slam on the breaks
C. Approach with caution and obey the proper traffic signals
D. Get ice cream
E. All of the above"
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Offline yuneeq

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2021, 08:48:36 PM »
They just got in the car and new how to drive and do things like parallel park?
How did they pass the rules of the road written part?

Guess I need to get out more.  :)

I didnít take drivers Ed. I studied a bit for the permit test, and my parents taught me how to drive.

Iím not against gun training requirements as long as itís kept to the minimum of what needs to be known. Should be a nationally standardized test, and any gun range should easily be able to get accreditation to offer training, testing, and issue licenses. There should be no unnecessarily burdensome or expensive aspect to the entire process.

Anything more than that is an invitation to step all over our rights.
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Offline EliJelly

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2021, 09:20:27 PM »

Anything more than that is an invitation to step all over our rights.
A kapparah with our rights. Our founding fathers were the smartest people during their time but they weren't Chazal (Lehavdil). They did not have the ability to foresee evolving cultural and situational changes which will happen to our country two centuries later. So when one argues that gun rights today does more harm than good, the counter argument shouldn't be "but the second amendment". If one believe that broad gun rights is still beneficial today then go ahead and make your case, I don't care how important it was for the farmer in Kentucky in 1780.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 09:39:38 PM by EliJelly »

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2021, 10:18:00 PM »
I didnít take drivers Ed. I studied a bit for the permit test, and my parents taught me how to drive.
So you were trained and studied like 99% of everybody.
Going to be pretty hard to take drivers ed when it isn't offered, no?  :)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 10:22:54 PM by CountValentine »
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: Make sure everyone gets a gun for Christmas!
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2021, 10:22:27 PM »
A kapparah with our rights. Our founding fathers were the smartest people during their time but they weren't Chazal (Lehavdil). They did not have the ability to foresee evolving cultural and situational changes which will happen to our country two centuries later. So when one argues that gun rights today does more harm than good, the counter argument shouldn't be "but the second amendment". If one believe that broad gun rights is still beneficial today then go ahead and make your case, I don't care how important it was for the farmer in Kentucky in 1780.
You are not allowed to even consider this when talking about 2A. To the gun nuts it is an absolute right.
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