Author Topic: Israel's good friend Obama...  (Read 44340 times)

Offline YitzyS

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #75 on: December 25, 2016, 11:12:28 AM »
Thanks Aaaron for the clarification regarding the funding.

Offline CS1

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #76 on: December 25, 2016, 11:22:27 AM »
Reading comprehension fail. That's not what bubbles said. And anyway, find me the language in the resolution, not in Bibi's response.
here is resolution 2334 language: https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

 Yes, the Western wall is in East Jerusalem, that's the point of "Yom Yerushalyim"! That we regained it in 1967. The Arabs want all pre-'67 borders, which includes the Kotel.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Day

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #77 on: December 25, 2016, 11:27:48 AM »
here is resolution 2334 language: https://www.un.org/press/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

 Yes, the Western wall is in East Jerusalem, that's the point of "Yom Yerushalyim"! That we regained it in 1967. The Arabs want all pre-'67 borders, which includes the Kotel.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Day

I know all of that. Nowhere does it call the Kosel an "illegal settlement.". Using false, attention-grabbing terminology doesn't help any arguments.

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #78 on: December 25, 2016, 11:45:20 AM »
I know all of that. Nowhere does it call the Kosel an "illegal settlement.". Using false, attention-grabbing terminology doesn't help any arguments.
That is semantics. The only reason it wouldn't be an illegal settlement is because it is not a settlement since no one lives there. The Jewish Quarter would be an illegal settlement. The point is the same.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #79 on: December 25, 2016, 11:55:13 AM »
That is semantics. The only reason it wouldn't be an illegal settlement is because it is not a settlement since no one lives there. The Jewish Quarter would be an illegal settlement. The point is the same.

A:  Semantics matter here.  Hyperbolic terminology just demonstrates an inherent bias.
B:  The Jewish Quarter would not be an illegal settlement, since it's not a settlement.

And no one has answered my question, what harmful effects with this resolution cause?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #80 on: December 25, 2016, 11:58:53 AM »
So the literally entire world says that Israel is wrong, but Bibi dismisses them off hand...

Wait, is Israel a world super power or a tiny, surrounded and dependent nation?

A little humility and reality check is in order ASAP!

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2016, 12:01:44 PM »
A:  Semantics matter here.  Hyperbolic terminology just demonstrates an inherent bias.
B:  The Jewish Quarter would not be an illegal settlement, since it's not a settlement.

And no one has answered my question, what harmful effects with this resolution cause?
Why is the Jewish Quarter not a settlement?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline AsherO

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2016, 12:02:02 PM »
So the literally entire world says that Israel is wrong, but Bibi dismisses them off hand...

Wait, is Israel a world super power or a tiny, surrounded and dependent nation?

A little humility and reality check is in order ASAP!

Or maybe you need some Jewish-pride, and a reality-check yourself. Israel has been standing up to the whole world for nearly 70 years now. We might be small in number, or in GDP, but that isn't where our power comes from :)
PGF24BMGS

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #83 on: December 25, 2016, 12:04:10 PM »
Why is the Jewish Quarter not a settlement?

In terms of actual definition, you may be correct, that residing in them constitutes a settlement.  But for all typical intents and purposes, to be a settlement that the UN and Geneva Convention take issue with, it must be constructed on "occupied" land.

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #84 on: December 25, 2016, 12:06:08 PM »
In terms of actual definition, you may be correct, that residing in them constitutes a settlement.  But for all typical intents and purposes, to be a settlement that the UN and Geneva Convention take issue with, it must be constructed on "occupied" land.
The buildings in the Jewish Quarter were constructed after 67 and therefore according to this resolution were constructed on occupied land.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #85 on: December 25, 2016, 12:12:03 PM »
The buildings in the Jewish Quarter were constructed after 67 and therefore according to this resolution were constructed on occupied land.

Wow, I didn't realize that.  Fair enough.

Offline aygart

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #86 on: December 25, 2016, 12:17:32 PM »
One thing the resolution certainly does is make a negotiated resolution more difficult. The worst thing to do prior to negotiations is to make the expectations of one side stronger. THis is especially if it crosses wat is almost certain to be across a red line of the opposing side. There is almost no way that Israel can agree to what this resolution gives an impression as being the starting point of negotiations. This creates a situation where a negotiated agreement is much more difficult to achieve.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used to start a religious discussion.

Online Emkay

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #87 on: December 25, 2016, 12:28:10 PM »



And no one has answered my question, what harmful effects with this resolution cause?
For one, lends false credence to the hypocritical and rabble rousing group BDS.

Online Moshe123

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #88 on: December 25, 2016, 12:59:31 PM »

Offline Aaaron

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Re: Israel's good friend Obama...
« Reply #89 on: December 25, 2016, 01:20:39 PM »
One thing the resolution certainly does is make a negotiated resolution more difficult. The worst thing to do prior to negotiations is to make the expectations of one side stronger. THis is especially if it crosses wat is almost certain to be across a red line of the opposing side. There is almost no way that Israel can agree to what this resolution gives an impression as being the starting point of negotiations. This creates a situation where a negotiated agreement is much more difficult to achieve.

That's fair.  But I don't believe it will have any bearing on any concessions Israel may make if and when peace is approached.

For one, lends false credence to the hypocritical and rabble rousing group BDS.


And therefore what?

Read this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/unscr-2334-israeli-settlements

Good article, but a lot of "mights."