Israel's good friend Obama...

[CZ60]

2 - I believe stopping the settlements will be seen by some PA's as a positive step. That will help the peace process but #1 has to be addressed.

Why do you believe that, if there is "iron-clad" evidence against it? For like the 5th time in this thread, see: Gaza.

They had a chance to show the world what land for peace can do. Not only did they not show the world anything, they made it into a missile launching ground, using it's children's schools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as missile warehouses!!!! You have not really responded when Gaza gets brought up. Right now its: Land for No Peace 1 - Land for Peace 0.

[JTZ]

Do you truthfully believe that a people whose very mantra screams for the destruction of us ( I believe including you) by any and all means can be calmed by peace offering in this case?

Again I will answer your questions but this isn't what I have a problem with.

Do all PA's believe this? If so then all this discussion and any resolution is meaningless as there will never be peace. Is this where it is at?

[Emkay]

Again I will answer your questions but this isn't what I have a problem with.

Do all PA's believe this? If so then all this discussion and any resolution is meaningless as there will never be peace. Is this where it is at?

No. I have met countless ones that long for peace like me and you. But all the ones who actually make decisions or have the ability to influence others decisions are all corrupt. As much as I'm hopeful there is absolutely zero chance of change under the current leadership and community arrangements.

[ExGingi]

I am going to guess you didn't post the article because of this: “We continue to believe that the construction of settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories is illegal, which is why we supported UN Security Council Resolution 2334 last week. But we are also clear that the settlements are far from the only problem in this conflict. In particular, the people of Israel deserve to live free from the threat of terrorism, with which they have had to cope for too long.”

So please enlighten me: has the US never occupied territory it won in a war? How about the UK, or any of the other 14 nation-states that voted for this resolution?

This is all a result of brainwashing at best, but more likely hypocrisy (and possibly some antisemitism).

When did 1967 borders become gospel? Or for that matter Sykes-Picot?

Where does the arrogance to imply that outsiders can determine or impose borders or agreements come from?

History has shown that peace isn't achieved achieved by way of appeasement and concessions by the attacked party that won. The resolution of the US-Mexico war should be used as a model for lasting peace. We won the war and captured territory, it is now ours.

[JTZ]

No. I have met countless ones that long for peace like me and you. But all the ones who actually make decisions or have the ability to influence others decisions are all corrupt. As much as I'm hopeful there is absolutely zero chance of change under the current leadership and community arrangements.

This is my belief also. Hopeful this makes it perfectly clear my position on this part of discussion.

[JTZ]

So please enlighten me:

That is a quote by the UK from the article that was posted. Now you want me to speak for the UK?

[ExGingi]

That is a quote by the UK from the article that was posted. Now you want me to speak for the UK?

Not one bit. That would almost be as bad as what the French, Kerry, et al are trying to do.

I was pointing out that the entire UN, France, and now Lame Duck Obama regime approach is nothing but arrogant, paternalistic, and more than anything hypocritic.

I addressed you as I got the impression that some of the brainwashing has affected you too. The bottom line is that throughout history, borders were drawn as an outcome of wars. (Where did Sykes-Picot get any authority, if not by virtue of defeating the entity that ruled over those territories for CENTURIES?) Oh, and BTW when was the last (if any) time in history that there was an Arab state, or any other forms of polity, that was governed or centered in the territory at question, which Jews refer to as Eretz Yisroel, and others refer to as Palestine? (For the record as an anecdote, I have/had a few uncles that arrived in the US with Palestinian passports).

[Yehuda57]

It is Friday so lets rap this up. My beef is the attacks on BO and the US. Bibi can condemn the resolution with out the attacks on BO/US. Labeling BO Muslim, anti-Israel or anti-Semite does not accomplish anything. Not acknowledging all the support he has shown towards Israel over the years only shows how blinded one is to the facts.

This is more than fair. Labeling Obama Muslim, calling him by his middle name (when you don't do so for anyone else), smacks of racism (at the least).

I think anyone looking at this with an ounce of objectivity knows that this is more about Netanyahu than Obama. He has been driving Israel more and more right wing, and whether you personally agree with that or not, progressive Americans like Obama will certainly not take kindly to it. Statements like, "there will never be a Palestinian state" when your country's position is that there should be one (given the right deal) is going to tick off the Americans.

However, Kerry's anti Israel speech is Obama's policy. Obama's *policy* is now anti Israel. The resolution is far from toothless. And the overwhelming evidence is that it was created by the Obama administration. The lies have been many, the denials weak. They could have created an anti settlement resolution without the nods to bds, occupied Jerusalem etc. Samantha Power didn't even address those in her speech.

Sure, Obama may not feel he is anti Isreal, and not intend to be, but in his lame duck final month, he is trotting out a anti Israel policy which is radically new for the US. Bibi's provocation notwithstanding, it's infuriating to us.

[springles]

This is my belief also. Hopeful this makes it perfectly clear my position on this part of discussion.

I think your position is becoming more clear to me. So you agree with most of us here that stopping the settlements and even leaving them will not lead to peace until there is a major change in leadership and philosophy on the Palestinian side. So then what was the point of the resolution from the US side? It doesnt promote peace. It just leads to the possibility that Israel can be punished for these settlements. Is that the behavior of a friend?

[JTZ]

I think we are at a pretty good point in the discussion to end on.

[aygart]

Let me get this straight. Kerry is trying to broker a deal between Israel and Palestine and he met with Palestine? Why in the world would he do that?

Fact check: False-Kerry is not currently trying to negotiate a peace deal between them. No way anything of the sort is happening within 4 weeks. That is why the whole thing is nothing more than a parting shot. If it was part of a larger path to a deal then I can hear an argument for this, but considering that this will not affect anything that the current administration will do in the region it was a slap for the slap's sake.

[aygart]

I think your position is becoming more clear to me. So you agree with most of us here that stopping the settlements and even leaving them will not lead to peace until there is a major change in leadership and philosophy on the Palestinian side. So then what was the point of the resolution from the US side? It doesnt promote peace. It just leads to the possibility that Israel can be punished for these settlements. Is that the behavior of a friend?

That is why many here are considering it to be a slap for the slap's sake.

[good sam]

I think we are at a pretty good point in the discussion to end on.

+1

I think everyone has made their positions clear.

Perhaps a wiki is in order.

[aygart]

I think we are at a pretty good point in the discussion to end on.

"They found a jug of oil which had enough for 1 day and lit from it for 8 days"

[CZ60]

"They found a jug of oil which had enough for 1 day and lit from it for 8 days"

We still have 2 days left... Lets get some more fire 

[JTZ]

http://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=48901.msg1635761#msg1635761

[ExGingi]

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/international-affairs/312253-what-is-obamas-end-game-on-israel

Maybe after all he is Israel's best friend.

[ilherman]

@IsraelBreaking: JUST IN: Trump advisors asked Netanyahu to attend inauguration. Netanyahu talking about possibly going and/or meeting before. - ny post

This is going to be a LOT of fun..

[CS1]

@IsraelBreaking: JUST IN: Trump advisors asked Netanyahu to attend inauguration. Netanyahu talking about possibly going and/or meeting before. - ny post

This is going to be a LOT of fun..

wow. Hatikvah tunes would be an interesting mix, too.

[Ergel]

It sounds like Bibi is in some real trouble. That would really throw a wrench into this whole thing