Its Open Season on Jews

[whacked1]

My mistake. So take out the all-caps and the rest still holds true.
You also repeated an antisemitic trope that Jews "destroy the public school system when they move-in.[sic]".

As one reason...

If you cant understand why one wouldn't want jews to move in and take over, I encourage you to self reflect how our (collective) actions are portrayed. As Peter Santenello mentioned in his first video series on "Hassidic Jews", "My only interaction with a Hassidic Jew was when he cut me off in the airport" (paraphrasing).

[m65]

There are some really bad takes in this thread. Asking for laws to exclude people from moving into your community is textbook racism/anti-Semitism no matter if your rationale is justified or not. Full stop.

of course they cant be allowed to legally adopt this approach
but u cant understand that she wants to preserve her community, and is nervous of a bunch of drastically different type of ppl changing everything she is used to in her home town?
i dont even know if there is a definition for anti semitism, but i can definitely think of more drastic examples, even w/o physical harm

[AsherO]

Interesting that in places like Crown Heights you have Jews there for a hundred years or so and wealthy white people moving in complain about Chassidic Jews driving up rent, pushing out blacks, and "taking over" the neighborhood". Seems like we can never win.

In CH this started before “wealthy white people” started moving into the neighborhood. And while gentrification/changes/cost-increases could be attributed to many things (including “wealthy white people”, visibly-Jewish or otherwise), it’s “innocuous” and “understandable” rhetoric like what happened in Rockville Center that tint peoples lenses to see this as a “Jewish” problem.

[AsherO]

If changing zoning laws to exclude Jews is not antisemitic/racist, what, pray tell, is? Is it only antisemitism if she pulls out a gun and shoots a Jew?

This is what laws about equal-opportunity-housing are meant to protect, people should be allowed buy/rent housing wherever they want.

[Dan]

of course they cant be allowed to legally adopt this approach
but u cant understand that she wants to preserve her community, and is nervous of a bunch of drastically different type of ppl changing everything she is used to in her home town?
i dont even know if there is a definition for anti semitism, but i can definitely think of more drastic examples, even w/o physical harm

Sure I can understand it. People might indeed say the same thing to avoid other groups, like Blacks or Asians, from moving in. But that doesn't mean it's not racist/anti-semitic.

It happened in my hometown in 40s-50s when Jews wanted to build a Reform shul and had to go to the OH supreme court to challenge anti-semitic zoning laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshe_Chesed_Fairmount_Temple#The_Beachwood_Zoning_and_Antisemitism_Conflict_of_1948-1957

It happened again in my hometown in the 90s, which by then was nearly all Jewish, when Jews wanted to build several Orthodox Shuls  and had to go to the OH supreme court to challenge anti-Orthodox zoning laws. The irony was lost on many of the secular Jews, though not all of them. A chapter of Jew vs Jew, that was featured in its entirety in the NYTimes in 2000, talks about the beginning of the saga:
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/13/magazine/the-jewish-tipping-point.html

It's happening again in my hometown today with home based shuls. It's a never ending ending cycle indeed.

[AsherO]

of course they cant be allowed to legally adopt this approach
but u cant understand that she wants to preserve her community, and is nervous of a bunch of drastically different type of ppl changing everything she is used to in her home town?
i dont even know if there is a definition for anti semitism, but i can definitely think of more drastic examples, even w/o physical harm

So now one person’s aversion to change should impinge on other peoples rights and freedoms?

[m65]

If changing zoning laws to exclude Jews is not antisemitic/racist, what, pray tell, is? Is it only antisemitism if she pulls out a gun and shoots a Jew?

i dont think the board should or would adopt her suggestion, but is this the worst case u of anti semitism barring shooting that u can think of?
when i was growing up in new york, every so often id be called dirty names by ppl of a certain race (i wont say which ones so as not to be called a racist), totally randomly w/o any provocation.
i, as a 9-10 year old, was chased more than once by groups of much older boys, while being called jew boy etc, or being refferenced to hitler etc.
there was just 2 days ago on the news reports of a shop owner refusing to service jews etc.
these types of things are called anti semitism, they are acts done against a jew for no valid reason other than that the perpetrator's hate of jews. even if the harm caused is minimal or none at all.
in this case she is bringing up a point which makes sense, and i can relate to it in regards to other life scenarios which would be relevant to me when i may be on the other side of such a situation.
so even though i think a democracy cannot allow such proposals to be accepted, i dont think it necessarily makes the one who brings up the point an anti semite.

[m65]

Sure I can understand it. People might indeed the same thing to avoid other groups, like Blacks or Asians, from moving in. But that doesn't mean it's not racist/anti-semitic.

It happened in my hometown in 40s-50s when Jews wanted to build a Reform shul and had to go to the OH supreme court to challenge anti-semitic zoning laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anshe_Chesed_Fairmount_Temple#The_Beachwood_Zoning_and_Antisemitism_Conflict_of_1948-1957

It happened again in my hometown in the 90s, which by then was nearly all Jewish, when Jews wanted to build several Orthodox Shuls  and had to go to the OH supreme court to challenge anti-Orthodox zoning laws. The irony was lost on many of the secular Jews, though not all of them. A chapter of Jew vs Jew, that was featured in its entirety in the NYTimes in 2000, talks about the beginning of the saga:
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/08/13/magazine/the-jewish-tipping-point.html

It's happening again in my hometown today with home based shuls. It's a never ending ending cycle indeed.

So now one person’s aversion to change should impinge on other peoples rights and freedoms?

no
again, i dont think it would be right to accept her proposal
i just am not convinced that her distress, which caused her to propose her idea, has anything to do with hating jews

[aygart]

https://matzav.com/help-lakewood-terror-victim-now/

[Yehuda57]

As one reason...

If you cant understand why one wouldn't want jews to move in and take over, I encourage you to self reflect how our (collective) actions are portrayed. As Peter Santenello mentioned in his first video series on "Hassidic Jews", "My only interaction with a Hassidic Jew was when he cut me off in the airport" (paraphrasing).

Please stop confusing issues. I can understand her very well. That doesn't mean her speech and proposals weren't textbook antisemitism. No racist thinks their racist views are unjustified. Any antisemite will tell you they're just "pointing out the facts" or whatever when they spew their drivel. We were having a discussion about something, you came in and disagreed with the majority of posters, and when we countered them, you said, "well I didn't watch her speech and was talking about a different thing", before doubling down and repeating the contrarian arguments. You can't have a discussion like that.

[Yehuda57]

i dont think the board should or would adopt her suggestion, but is this the worst case u of anti semitism barring shooting that u can think of?
when i was growing up in new york, every so often id be called dirty names by ppl of a certain race (i wont say which ones so as not to be called a racist), totally randomly w/o any provocation.
i, as a 9-10 year old, was chased more than once by groups of much older boys, while being called jew boy etc, or being refferenced to hitler etc.
there was just 2 days ago on the news reports of a shop owner refusing to service jews etc.
these types of things are called anti semitism, they are acts done against a jew for no valid reason other than that the perpetrator's hate of jews. even if the harm caused is minimal or none at all.
in this case she is bringing up a point which makes sense, and i can relate to it in regards to other life scenarios which would be relevant to me when i may be on the other side of such a situation.
so even though i think a democracy cannot allow such proposals to be accepted, i dont think it necessarily makes the one who brings up the point an anti semite.

I've written about this on this forum and elsewhere ad nauseam. I would include verbal assault in the assault category, even though it's quite obviously not the same. Barring service to someone because they are Jewish is the same as barring someone from buying a house just because they are Jewish. Whether or not this lady is an antisemite, antichossid, or antidentite is beside the point. Her speech and proposals were textbook antisemitism, and not only were they not condemned immediately, she was told they would look into enacting them.

[Ver hut gazugt]

FTFY

This literally happens all the time. In boro park across from shoprite there was an empty lot (now condos full of chassidim), but at one point there was a proposal to make it affordable housing. The entire frum community was up in arms about it.

that is a very different type of case. You are asking for government to get involved to actively  bring in people from outside the community.

[m65]

that is a very different type of case. You are asking for government to get involved to actively  bring in people from outside the community.

oh the fine tuned "lomdus" of a racist
just say "because this is against my interests, and that was for my interests"!

[whacked1]

that is a very different type of case. You are asking for government to get involved to actively  bring in people from outside the community.

Development would be privately owned. Nothing to do with the government.

So now one person’s aversion to change should impinge on other peoples rights and freedoms?

Actually in most cases its the opposite. Are the zoning laws required to be changed to allow a place of worship on a residential street.

Please stop confusing issues. I can understand her very well. That doesn't mean her speech and proposals weren't textbook antisemitism. No racist thinks their racist views are unjustified. Any antisemite will tell you they're just "pointing out the facts" or whatever when they spew their drivel. We were having a discussion about something, you came in and disagreed with the majority of posters, and when we countered them, you said, "well I didn't watch her speech and was talking about a different thing", before doubling down and repeating the contrarian arguments. You can't have a discussion like that.

I believe you are confusing the issues. The only thing I was constantly relaying, was, not wanting Jews to take over doesnt mean youre an anti-semite. Now is this women, to that I replied "i didnt watch the video". Not sure what the bold text has to do with any of my posts.

[aygart]

The only thing I was constantly relaying, was, not wanting Jews to take over doesnt mean youre an anti-semite. Now is this women, to that I replied "i didnt watch the video". Not sure what the bold text has to do with any of my posts.

Just argue with me. I also didn't watch the video. I will take the side that trying to keep a specific ethnicity out because "They take over" is racism. What does "they take over" mean anyhow? TO do anything based on an ethnicity or race etc. is racism. period. The next step is to be upset at them for taking over and ramming cars into people. Now, I didn't watch the video, but if someone would tell me that they found her on neo nazi websites I would say it is typical.

[whacked1]

Just argue with me. I also didn't watch the video. I will take the side that trying to keep a specific ethnicity out because "They take over" is racism. What does "they take over" mean anyhow? TO do anything based on an ethnicity or race etc. is racism. period. The next step is to be upset at them for taking over and ramming cars into people. Now, I didn't watch the video, but if someone would tell me that they found her on neo nazi websites I would say it is typical.

Is an inaction the same qualifier as racism? If a zoning board wouldn't agree to change the zoning laws to fit the needs of a black church, does that make it racist?

[aygart]

Is an inaction the same qualifier as racism? If a zoning board wouldn't agree to change the zoning laws to fit the needs of a black church, does that make it racist?

If it is because it is a black church then absolutely!

[whacked1]

If it is because it is a black church then absolutely!

How about if it because it is a church and nothing to do with it being black, does that make them racist?

[aygart]

How about if it because it is a church and nothing to do with it being black, does that make them racist?

Because it is religious? Same thing.

[whacked1]

Because it is religious? Same thing.

No, because it isnt a residential house. Same reason why they wouldnt allow a community center to be built on a property