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 My view on a statement like Rav Miller's is that whatever happens we are supposed to take a lesson out of it. When a tragedy happens and we say it may have been because of this that or the other thing it is simply to take a lesson from it for personal improvement. It is not to lay fault.
« Last edited by ltttc on January 09, 2020, 03:19:19 PM »

Author Topic: Its Open Season on Jews  (Read 44874 times)

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #160 on: December 30, 2019, 12:31:28 AM »
Did you even read the post I was referring to?

This is the internet.
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Offline good sam

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #161 on: December 30, 2019, 12:47:21 AM »
why does this have to be fascist germany to be alarming? Name the last "great" country where jews thrived, where they weren't eventually persecuted?
Name the last great country where Jews had equal protection under the law (1) without being singled out as such (doesn't count if the law specifically refers to Jews) and (2) not subject to the whim of a single person or a small group of people.

The U.S. is a uniquely free country where the protections are so broad and institutional that it never even had to grapple with the question of the Jews.

I agree that anyone (even a survivor) who compares anything here to anything there has some agenda.
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline chevron

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #162 on: December 30, 2019, 12:56:29 AM »
It's a lot of factors.

https://nypost.com/2019/12/28/suspects-released-without-bail-after-shocking-attacks-on-jews/

Including various judicial reform programs.

People get away with assault, and there's no dererance

Offline deltastubs

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #163 on: December 30, 2019, 01:09:40 AM »
I don't think anyone can stop anti semitism. Its galus. It's part of life. It has been and always will be.

What I do want is Jews to be more role models, more to go out of their way to be better people, to have better ethics, proper manners, just go above and beyond, to define and live up to our title as role models, as a light unto the world.

I want when there is a attack for regular sane people (-not only politicians and people on tv) to be able to confidently say that there really is no reason for the attacks. As opposed to now where I'm sure we have all seen the jersey city people talking after the attacks and go on any community facebook page where people are ok with it for various reasons... right or wrong, as long as they can rationalize it, we have to do better and live up to our jobs in this world.

If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism, vs now where on tv people say that, but on facebook and peope talking not on the news, some are ok with it for fill in the blank reason...

Do better, go out of your way. Greet people, be friendly, hold a door, be a good neighbor, have stellar ethics in business, in life etc etc  -You're different. You're dressing differently, you're representing something, you stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to stand up for it, you need to live up to it every single day. You need to be the best person you can be not only in your community, but to anyone who even gets a glimpse of you at any point in the day.

This way if something does happen, no one in their right mind can say oh them, figures blank blank blank...

Offline yuneeq

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #164 on: December 30, 2019, 03:08:25 AM »
Ok I'll spoonfeed, There's a reason why the bad guy in Taxes comes with a gun and the bad guy in NY comes with a knife.

TEXAS - a southern state. TAXES - When the gov takes a cut of your paycheck.
Also, TIL that Jersey City, Poway, and Pittsburgh, are all located in Texas.

Offline lansky

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #165 on: December 30, 2019, 06:20:32 AM »
Name the last great country where Jews had equal protection under the law (1) without being singled out as such (doesn't count if the law specifically refers to Jews) and (2) not subject to the whim of a single person or a small group of people.

The U.S. is a uniquely free country where the protections are so broad and institutional that it never even had to grapple with the question of the Jews.

I agree that anyone (even a survivor) who compares anything here to anything there has some agenda.
So get even more comfortable just a isolated incident no reason to think about things

Online Moshe123

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #166 on: December 30, 2019, 06:22:41 AM »
https://nypost.com/2019/12/30/monsey-stabbing-suspect-may-be-tied-to-another-knifing-at-nearby-synagogue/

*Thomas’ vehicle was seen near that scene and he was later questioned by Ramapo police as a person of interest, but released without being charged, according to law-enforcement sources.*

WOAHA......

Insane if true.

Offline good sam

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #167 on: December 30, 2019, 06:57:30 AM »
TEXAS - a southern state. TAXES - When the gov takes a cut of your paycheck.
Also, TIL that Jersey City, Poway, and Pittsburgh, are all located in Texas.
https://youtu.be/lgRbxHttZSM
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #168 on: December 30, 2019, 07:21:41 AM »
https://nypost.com/2019/12/30/monsey-stabbing-suspect-may-be-tied-to-another-knifing-at-nearby-synagogue/

*Thomas’ vehicle was seen near that scene and he was later questioned by Ramapo police as a person of interest, but released without being charged, according to law-enforcement sources.*

WOAHA......

Insane if true.

Article also seems to indicate serious mental health issues.

Does this turn the issue at hand from antisemitism into how we deal with mental health issues (especially, but not exclusively) when there's a potential threat to society?
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online Moshe123

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #169 on: December 30, 2019, 08:33:21 AM »
Article also seems to indicate serious mental health issues.

Does this turn the issue at hand from antisemitism into how we deal with mental health issues (especially, but not exclusively) when there's a potential threat to society?


It can be both.

He didn't attack anyone other than Jews.

וואס ליגט א ניכטער אויפן לונג, ליגט א שיכור אויפן צינג.

Offline gingyguy

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #170 on: December 30, 2019, 08:34:10 AM »
Ok I'll spoonfeed, There's a reason why the bad guy in Taxes comes with a gun and the bad guy in NY comes with a knife.
bad guys in Ny don't have guns?
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #171 on: December 30, 2019, 08:37:54 AM »
It can be both.

He didn't attack anyone other than Jews.

וואס ליגט א ניכטער אויפן לונג, ליגט א שיכור אויפן צינג.

I can tell you that besides being part of a community that experiences bigotry against it, I have also been personally subject to it. I can also tell you that there were other times that I was a victim of something that others might have labeled as hate crimes, but I don't (though I am not denying that a hateful atmosphere and rhetoric heard by the perpetrators in the past might have indirectly influenced the crime committed).
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #172 on: December 30, 2019, 09:06:12 AM »
Did you even read the post I was referring to?

you are right . I should not have directed my comment in response to your post. Was addressing the hesitation from public to sound the alarm bells.

Offline dealfinder11

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #173 on: December 30, 2019, 09:14:38 AM »
Name the last great country where Jews had equal protection under the law (1) without being singled out as such (doesn't count if the law specifically refers to Jews) and (2) not subject to the whim of a single person or a small group of people.

The U.S. is a uniquely free country where the protections are so broad and institutional that it never even had to grapple with the question of the Jews.

I agree that anyone (even a survivor) who compares anything here to anything there has some agenda.

I think your second point is more valid than your first one. However the minute Trump proclaimed "Lets ban all Muslims!" to thunderous cheers, and then proceeded to get elected, was alarming to me. What happens if we get another Madoff scandal and an extreme leftist candidate proclaims "Jews are the problem on Wall street! Lets ban all Jews!". I understand it's not an apples to apples comparison, however it's worth thinking about.

Offline Yehuda57

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #174 on: December 30, 2019, 09:39:23 AM »


I don't think anyone can stop anti semitism. Its galus. It's part of life. It has been and always will be.

What I do want is Jews to be more role models, more to go out of their way to be better people, to have better ethics, proper manners, just go above and beyond, to define and live up to our title as role models, as a light unto the world.

I want when there is a attack for regular sane people (-not only politicians and people on tv) to be able to confidently say that there really is no reason for the attacks. As opposed to now where I'm sure we have all seen the jersey city people talking after the attacks and go on any community facebook page where people are ok with it for various reasons... right or wrong, as long as they can rationalize it, we have to do better and live up to our jobs in this world.

If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism, vs now where on tv people say that, but on facebook and peope talking not on the news, some are ok with it for fill in the blank reason...

Do better, go out of your way. Greet people, be friendly, hold a door, be a good neighbor, have stellar ethics in business, in life etc etc  -You're different. You're dressing differently, you're representing something, you stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to stand up for it, you need to live up to it every single day. You need to be the best person you can be not only in your community, but to anyone who even gets a glimpse of you at any point in the day.

This way if something does happen, no one in their right mind can say oh them, figures blank blank blank...

This is one of the few posts that is well written, clearly thought out, and absolutely sickening.

Vile stuff.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline ExGingi

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #175 on: December 30, 2019, 09:50:59 AM »
I don't think anyone can stop anti semitism. Its galus. It's part of life. It has been and always will be.

What I do want is Jews to be more role models, more to go out of their way to be better people, to have better ethics, proper manners, just go above and beyond, to define and live up to our title as role models, as a light unto the world.

I want when there is a attack for regular sane people (-not only politicians and people on tv) to be able to confidently say that there really is no reason for the attacks. As opposed to now where I'm sure we have all seen the jersey city people talking after the attacks and go on any community facebook page where people are ok with it for various reasons... right or wrong, as long as they can rationalize it, we have to do better and live up to our jobs in this world.

If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism, vs now where on tv people say that, but on facebook and peope talking not on the news, some are ok with it for fill in the blank reason...

Do better, go out of your way. Greet people, be friendly, hold a door, be a good neighbor, have stellar ethics in business, in life etc etc  -You're different. You're dressing differently, you're representing something, you stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to stand up for it, you need to live up to it every single day. You need to be the best person you can be not only in your community, but to anyone who even gets a glimpse of you at any point in the day.

This way if something does happen, no one in their right mind can say oh them, figures blank blank blank...

Agreed on everything except for your last sentence (to a certain extent). Unfortunately even if we do everything right and לפנים משורת הדין, there will still be bigots that will "rationalize" their bigotry. That shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing irrespective of what others might or might not think or say.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Offline CountValentine

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #176 on: December 30, 2019, 09:59:49 AM »

This is one of the few posts that is well written, clearly thought out, and absolutely sickening.

Vile stuff.
You lost me.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yonah

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #177 on: December 30, 2019, 10:25:23 AM »
As usual, late to the party, but sharing my $0.02:

@deltastubs  - that was a great comment with you 100%

As far as security is concerned, as both a martial arts practitioner and shul security volunteer. I highly recommend both. Please don't misunderstand, I am not suggesting that every shul have 25 people on duty every shabbos that are trained in MMA and Carrying AR15's, what I am saying is, we should all be doing something.

- Shul entrances need to be limited, locked and monitored. I realize that this is much easier for some shuls than others, and in some situations than others, but we need to take reasonable steps to make sure that someone's watching the door. I daven at a small shul where I know 90% of the people who walk in the door shabbos morning, and among the 10% I don't recognize are guests who can be verified otherwise.

- I can't promise you that learning martial arts will help you fight off an attacker - especially considering that most of the attacks are surprises. (It's kind of hard to block a punch  to the back of your head that you didn't know was coming). But what if you are able to see it coming? Block a punch? Give a quick kick to the groin? I am willing to suggest that without even the slightest martial arts training you might not even try. Even just a little training will help you build the confidence you need to maybe swiftly hit back and get away.

- Every shul needs to build a rapport with their local police. The police need to know who you are and vice versa. Invite them to kiddush, show your appreciation for them (my shul bakes them cookies on 12/24 and delivers in to the local police, fire, and ems stations - again, something in a small town that works, but might not in NYC).

- I am not a gun control nut, nor do I have the 2nd amendment tattooed on my chest. I've met several armed Jews. Some of them are former or current Law Enforcement or Military, and I'm happy to daven with them knowing that they'd protect our shul in a shooter situation. Some of them are random people with permits and guns, who I worry will be more likely to accidentally shoot me than save me when push comes to shove.

As much as we try to sensationalize the good guy with gun narrative, my favorite tale of a thwarted terror attack was the one in Germany on Yom Kippur - where the attacker was not allowed in the building, and only managed to kill two people on the street. Yes, their deaths are tragic, but better 2 people than 20 or 30.

I don't think anyone can stop anti semitism. Its galus. It's part of life. It has been and always will be.

What I do want is Jews to be more role models, more to go out of their way to be better people, to have better ethics, proper manners, just go above and beyond, to define and live up to our title as role models, as a light unto the world.

I want when there is a attack for regular sane people (-not only politicians and people on tv) to be able to confidently say that there really is no reason for the attacks. As opposed to now where I'm sure we have all seen the jersey city people talking after the attacks and go on any community facebook page where people are ok with it for various reasons... right or wrong, as long as they can rationalize it, we have to do better and live up to our jobs in this world.

If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism, vs now where on tv people say that, but on facebook and peope talking not on the news, some are ok with it for fill in the blank reason...

Do better, go out of your way. Greet people, be friendly, hold a door, be a good neighbor, have stellar ethics in business, in life etc etc  -You're different. You're dressing differently, you're representing something, you stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to stand up for it, you need to live up to it every single day. You need to be the best person you can be not only in your community, but to anyone who even gets a glimpse of you at any point in the day.

This way if something does happen, no one in their right mind can say oh them, figures blank blank blank...

Offline flyingace

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #178 on: December 30, 2019, 10:32:30 AM »
why does this have to be fascist germany to be alarming? Name the last "great" country where jews thrived, where they weren't eventually persecuted?
I didn't say Germany, I said Europe. Looking at history from a Jewish point of view- not the political, legal, or social  aspects; things are changing in America. That change for Jews ALWAYS goes in one direction. This is not the first time Jews are going through this; hopefully it is the last. But to ignore the religious/hashkafic view is foolish.

Offline flyingace

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Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #179 on: December 30, 2019, 10:37:06 AM »
Name the last great country where Jews had equal protection under the law (1) without being singled out as such (doesn't count if the law specifically refers to Jews) and (2) not subject to the whim of a single person or a small group of people.

The U.S. is a uniquely free country where the protections are so broad and institutional that it never even had to grapple with the question of the Jews.

I agree that anyone (even a survivor) who compares anything here to anything there has some agenda.
No agenda. Maybe an emotional reaction. But, honestly, I can relate. Jews are being attacked and killed because they are Jewish. That's scary to someone who went through that.