Topic Wiki

 My view on a statement like Rav Miller's is that whatever happens we are supposed to take a lesson out of it. When a tragedy happens and we say it may have been because of this that or the other thing it is simply to take a lesson from it for personal improvement. It is not to lay fault.
« Last edited by ltttc on January 09, 2020, 03:19:19 PM »

Author Topic: Its Open Season on Jews  (Read 29894 times)

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1845
  • Total likes: 2543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #180 on: December 30, 2019, 10:56:25 AM »
How many Jews can "rational people on Facebook" justify getting shot if 5 Chassidim are dishonest in business?

How many Jews deserve to be hacked by machete if 10 religious Jews scam welfare according to "rational people"?

How many Jewish children can be targeted to be shot dead for every over-zealous Jew trying to buy a house in a rational person's neighborhood?

"If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism"

To stay or to go? Would you like fries with that? What else do *you* need?

Does an orphaned child need the same, or can his/her standards be a bit lower?

Will the same rational people be ok with me shooting up a country club because a lawyer scammed me?

Can I hack investment fund managers with machetes because of Maddof?

Look, I know you're not justifying it yourself, but what's the difference between that and justifying the justifiers?

Anyone who sees an attack on Jews and says, "it's terrible, but..." is NOT a rational person we need to placate, but a hateful bigot we need to loudly condemn.

If you want to give a musar schmooze, it's Zos Chanukah, there's plenty of inspiration to be found. If you want to find inspiration and a call to action from the tragedies, by all means.

But to stand on the fresh graves of those killed in Jersey City, and atop the blood flowing in Monsey to eck and beck about justifying the murder of Jews because fewer than 100% of the community are absolute paragons of virtue? That sickens me to the core.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 12:08:51 PM by Yehuda57 »
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 8585
  • Total likes: 1886
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #181 on: December 30, 2019, 12:17:12 PM »
You lost me.
Someone help me out as I have no idea what is going on.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1845
  • Total likes: 2543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #182 on: December 30, 2019, 12:20:10 PM »
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline deltastubs

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 288
  • Total likes: 10
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: usa
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #183 on: December 30, 2019, 12:21:30 PM »
@Yehuda57

Those questions are great questions and feel free to go down the rabbit hole, but..
Youíre missing the point
I know YOU canít justify it.
But half the county can
And thatís the issue
ďWell those people arenít rational...Ē - could be, but thatís half the people, and youíre a Jew youíre held to a higher standard. Iím not saying you asked for it, chances are you were born in to it, but here you are so own it and be better.

Again itís happening regardless, itís galus. Now do you want half the county justifying it or do you want their reaction to be wtf why thatís crazy theyíre the nicest friendliest cleanest well mannered most honest etc etc people I know

This might help you understand, headline says: five black peoples stabbed, vs five Asian people stabbed, any difference in your reaction?
We need to make sure that we get the right reaction.

(+ We really are a light unto the nations and do need to exemplify that -and as our lovely First Lady says, be best!)

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 8585
  • Total likes: 1886
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #184 on: December 30, 2019, 12:21:52 PM »

Was that just a standalone post or were you actually responding to someone?
ETA: I understand now.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 12:25:49 PM by CountValentine »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online ExGingi

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2015
  • Posts: 8324
  • Total likes: 2065
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 10
    • View Profile
  • Location: 770
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #185 on: December 30, 2019, 12:28:00 PM »
Someone help me out as I have no idea what is going on.

OK. Let me try to spoonfeed it to you.

Keep in mind that when someone says something, the opposite might be implied.

If there is a attack, I need any rational person to be able to say this is senseless anti semitism, vs now where on tv people say that, but on facebook and peope talking not on the news, some are ok with it for fill in the blank reason...


So there's an implication here that because we as Jews are not 100% someone has an excuse for the bigoted attacks, whereas if we were 100% all the time, no-one would be able to have an excuse.

Do better, go out of your way. Greet people, be friendly, hold a door, be a good neighbor, have stellar ethics in business, in life etc etc  -You're different. You're dressing differently, you're representing something, you stick out like a sore thumb, and you need to stand up for it, you need to live up to it every single day. You need to be the best person you can be not only in your community, but to anyone who even gets a glimpse of you at any point in the day.

This way if something does happen, no one in their right mind can say oh them, figures blank blank blank...
Here again, there's an implication that if we as Jews are 100% flawless, no-one in their right mind can say... but (implied within is that) if we as Jews are not 100% flawless then someone in their right mind might find legitimate justification.

Reading @deltastubs initially on a phone screen, I missed the earlier implication and only pointed out in my previous response to him my problem with the last sentece. After re-reading the post I realize that the same theme is embeded throughout. I agree we should strive to be 100% flawless, but not being so is never a justification for any bigotry.
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 8585
  • Total likes: 1886
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #186 on: December 30, 2019, 12:32:05 PM »
OK. Let me try to spoonfeed it to you.
I now understand what you and @Yehuda57 are saying. I did not take the original post as justification.
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 8585
  • Total likes: 1886
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #187 on: December 30, 2019, 12:34:23 PM »
Not making this about the current tragedy but any tragedy. How can we come up with things to do without coming across as blaming the victim or justifying the tragedy?
ETA: Example - A girl goes to a club alone and gets assaulted. I say you should always tell your daughters they should never go alone. Is that blaming the victim or justifying the attack?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 12:40:08 PM by CountValentine »
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch

Offline Yehuda57

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 1845
  • Total likes: 2543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Brooklyn
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #188 on: December 30, 2019, 12:44:25 PM »

Those questions are great questions and feel free to go down the rabbit hole, but..
Youíre missing the point
I know YOU canít justify it.
But half the county can
And thatís the issue


ABSOLUTELY THE EFF NOT. "Half the country" justifying murdering Jews was, is and always will be the issue. I should strive to be a better person today and always, but my right to exist is not to be justified by anyone, especially by virtue of anyone else's behavior in my community. Holding yourself to a higher standard is all well and good, but NEVER to justify, even in the tiniest of ways, attacks on innocents.

If I use the term "victim-blaming" I might be dismissed as a liberal snowflake obsessing over semantic PC microaggressions. But in truth to blame the victims is cruel and demented. It enhances the pain and suffering. Would you have the gall to make your comments to the families of those slain in Jersey City? 


This might help you understand, headline says: five black peoples stabbed, vs five Asian people stabbed, any difference in your reaction?
We need to make sure that we get the right reaction.


Oh hells no. Firstly, the fact that you assume I would have a different reaction is clearly a projection and wildly telling on your part (which way, I'm not sure).

But the onus is on *me* not to be a racist, not on the black or Asian people who were stabbed to have been paragons of virtue. We cannot control the reaction, and it is sickening that we would ever be expected to.


(+ We really are a light unto the nations and do need to exemplify that -and as our lovely First Lady says, be best!)

Absolutely. Retract your post, make no mention of the victims or the justifications, or "rational people". Post on another thread not titled "It's Open Season on the Jews" that we should be a light unto the nations and better our relationships with our neighbors in any way we can and I'm with you. We can and should do better, as humans and as Jews always. But never in context of justifying the murder or attacks on innocent Jews.
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline deltastubs

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Oct 2015
  • Posts: 288
  • Total likes: 10
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
  • Location: usa
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #189 on: December 30, 2019, 01:05:38 PM »
@Yehuda57
Oh boi,

Lol we might be on the same page...
I'm going more based on reality situation on the street, what you're saying would be great in ideal situations which is clearly not the present

Anyway... Just be a better person do better and G-d willing it will all be good!

Online flyingace

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2008
  • Posts: 778
  • Total likes: 92
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #190 on: December 30, 2019, 01:14:24 PM »
Holding yourself to a higher standard is all well and good, but NEVER to justify, even in the tiniest of ways, attacks on innocents.
We do have to take the attacks as a sign that something in us needs fixing, personally and collectively. When Jews don't make kiddush, G-d makes havdalah. It's not just the anti-Semitic beliefs of the perpetrators playing out here. I don't think those pointing that out are justifying the attacks. Haters will always hate , no matter what Jews do or don't do. But WE should connect the attacks to our need to do teshuvah.

Offline ltttc

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 507
  • Total likes: 95
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #191 on: December 30, 2019, 01:36:27 PM »
Anyone comparing the US now to Germany in the 30's either has a political agenda or is completely ignorant of history. I'm not saying that the recent rise in anti-semitism isn't problematic and shouldn't be addressed but fear mongering like this does nobody any good.
Being an ostrich does nobody good either

Offline ltttc

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 507
  • Total likes: 95
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #192 on: December 30, 2019, 01:38:00 PM »
Tell her that unlike in Germany in the 30's, every government official from the president and all the way down, condemned this within hours, so calm her down, it's a big mitzva.
(Yea I know words is not enough we need action)
Please educate yourself a bit (I don't mean this in a negative way)

Offline ltttc

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Silver Elite
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2019
  • Posts: 507
  • Total likes: 95
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #193 on: December 30, 2019, 01:41:55 PM »
Name the last great country where Jews had equal protection under the law (1) without being singled out as such (doesn't count if the law specifically refers to Jews) and (2) not subject to the whim of a single person or a small group of people.

The U.S. is a uniquely free country where the protections are so broad and institutional that it never even had to grapple with the question of the Jews.

I agree that anyone (even a survivor) who compares anything here to anything there has some agenda.
If you know any living Holocaust survivor, I suggest you talk to them. Germany was the most cultured country and Jews held extremely high positions across the board. None of them would have ever imagined this to happen in Germany. A diff country, perhaps. But not in Germany.

Offline mmgfarb

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Dec 2015
  • Posts: 8245
  • Total likes: 918
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 4
    • View Profile
Re: Its Open Season on Jews
« Reply #194 on: December 30, 2019, 01:43:36 PM »
Being an ostrich does nobody good either
Very well iterated. I applaud you good sir.
"JS [is] a fetid cesspool of unvarnished linguistic manure, with lots of useless drivel and post-padding." -Moishebatchy