Author Topic: Can this be a blueprint?  (Read 7450 times)

Offline gingyguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 419
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: I don't like to brag
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2020, 12:10:18 PM »
What if a little old lady can decently shoot a 22 but can't hold a 45?

If she cant hold a 45 than she absolutely should not.
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2020, 12:17:44 PM »
Like most issues these days, it's all emotion. I want a gun, and I have a right to it! Anything controversial becomes emotional, and the real issues get tossed. I have a friend who recently purchased a gun. He plays around with it when it's not loaded. It irks me to no end, but he doesn't get why there's an issue if "he cleared it". Scary.
Sure, it's infuriating. But what we need to realize is that with these kinds of people a gun is just another tool in their arsenal in their quest for a Darwin Award. These generally aren't safety-minded people who suddenly develop a flippant attitude when they pick up a gun. These are probably the same type of people who'll kill themselves driving an ATV drunk without a helmet.

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2020, 12:22:19 PM »
Sure, it's infuriating. But what we need to realize is that with these kinds of people a gun is just another tool in their arsenal in their quest for a Darwin Award. These generally aren't safety-minded people who suddenly develop a flippant attitude when they pick up a gun. These are probably the same type of people who'll kill themselves driving an ATV drunk without a helmet.
He's a friend, so no comment
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2020, 12:37:18 PM »
If she cant hold a 45 than she absolutely should not.

There's a difference between holding a 45 and using it

I had a Smith and Wesson model 29, I got it from a friend at a good deal and it was fun to have.

I sold it because shooting a 44 was not my thing.


Offline gingyguy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Sep 2011
  • Posts: 1434
  • Total likes: 419
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 36
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Programs: I don't like to brag
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2020, 12:44:03 PM »
There's a difference between holding a 45 and using it

I had a Smith and Wesson model 29, I got it from a friend at a good deal and it was fun to have.

I sold it because shooting a 44 was not my thing.
I used your words. But if you cant hold you probably cant either shoot .
May you slide down the banister of happiness & get many splinters of success up your career.

Offline whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2020, 12:49:23 PM »
Do you think most people who drive a car have received "proper training?" Or use them responsibly?
...and some training classes are given in a bar. Real competence there.  :)
Even if you take your training in a real school, it doesn't mean you were listening, and most instructors just want their $ and you your cert.
A permit for a gun is a joke. You can't dispute that so you post nonsense.
You guys think the permit and safety courses for a car are any less of a joke?

I only "took" a car safety class once, before I got my learner's permit. I paid the guy $50 and got a certificate that I took the class.

Talking about a joke, my test to get my permit was literally 5 multiple-choice questions about street signs. And the desk had a paper with pictures of all the signs on it! But apparently questions like "What sign is rectangular shaped? A. Stop sign B. Speed limit sign C..." are kinda difficult for some people. To quote a couple of kids next to me in line after we finished the test (both of whom had apparently chosen "stop sign,") "Man, I was so nervous I forgot which shape is a rectangle." Well luckily for them you only needed to get 3/5 right to pass.

I'm not even gonna get into the shtick that went on with the driving tests back in my yeshiva days
« Last Edit: January 01, 2020, 02:40:04 PM by whYME »

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2020, 12:50:54 PM »
Like most issues these days, it's all emotion. I want a gun, and I have a right to it! Anything controversial becomes emotional, and the real issues get tossed. I have a friend who recently purchased a gun. He plays around with it when it's not loaded. It irks me to no end, but he doesn't get why there's an issue if "he cleared it". Scary.

It's not the gun that people get emotional about.

It's the freedom of tyranny and the freedom to defend your home and body.

With everything in the US Constitution, there are pros and cons to it.

Do neo Nazis have a right to March? The Constitution and the courts ruled that yes.

That the Constitution protects my rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, is that as an individual I have the right to defend myself.

I'm not even a crazy gun person and have not really carried a gun in years.

The debate of who has the right to own a gun follows the lines of does the state of the right to just lock up anyone they deem a danger?

As mentioned, many of these attacks are by unhinged people, the mental health reform of the 70's and 80's was both crucial and devastating.

Part of arguments I see revolve around former soldier's, here are people who defended their country (or were political pawns) but regardless, if a guy has PTSD and someone deems them unfit well hey they lose their guns.

In the same sentence many will qualify their firearm training as being ex military.. great.

It's not an emotional debate by people just screaming 2a.

There's another side of the aisle saying no one should own guns..

And there are DDF members who are a full of their qualifications to own and carry a gun, it's like billionaires trying to tell me how I should spend my money.

Well good on all your training and practice, not that you guys don't sound pompous which you do, but I respect that people did the work and trained and studied.

That's fine, but that's akin to someone with a master's degree saying no one without a BA should be allowed to post on the internet.

Do I worry about tyranny? Sure.. not that guns will help in the coming age but freedom has been a battle since humanity was formed.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2020, 12:53:36 PM »
I used your words. But if you cant hold you probably cant either shoot .

Sorry I meant it in context of shooting.

Although in Israel you get a gun, you have to show you can shoot that gun well.


Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2020, 12:58:10 PM »


You guys think the permit and safety courses for a car are any less of a joke?

I only "took" a car safety class once, before I got my learner's permit. I paid the guy $50 and got a certificate that I took the class.

Talking about a joke, my test to get my permit was literally 5 multiple-choice questions about street signs. And the desk had a paper with pictures of all the signs on it! But apparently questions like "What sign is rectangular shaped? A. Stop sign B. Speed limit sign C..." are kinda difficult for some people. To quote a couple of kids next to me in line after we finished the test (both of whom had apparently chosen "stop sign," "Man, I was so nervous I forgot which shape is a rectangle." Well luckily for them you only needed to get 3/5 right to pass.

I'm not even gonna get into the shtick that went on with the driving tests back in my yeshiva days

Firstly, where I come from, it definitely wasn't as simple as you're saying, to get a driver's license. I know many people who failed, and multiple times, and they weren't bad drivers. You don't need to take any classes in IL to own a gun, and very minimal training to carry one.
Additionally, my driving test was a real life experience on a real street, in a real car. Kind of hard to duplicate many of the potential scenarios you'd face when using a gun, even in more intense training.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2020, 01:01:30 PM »

Firstly, where I come from, it definitely wasn't as simple as you're saying, to get a driver's license. I know many people who failed, and multiple times, and they weren't bad drivers. You don't need to take any classes in IL to own a gun, and very minimal training to carry one.
Additionally, my driving test was a real life experience on a real street, in a real car. Kind of hard to duplicate many of the potential scenarios you'd face when using a gun, even in more intense training.

In FL you need to demonstrate you can stop, yield, park, backup and do a 3 point turn in a parking lot.

You also have to use your turn signals, which almost nobody in Miami actually does

Offline as2

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 5671
  • Total likes: 917
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 24
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2020, 01:44:38 PM »
In FL you need to demonstrate you can stop, yield, park, backup and do a 3 point turn in a parking lot.

You also have to use your turn signals, which almost nobody in Miami actually does
Same in IL for the most part.
Memories last forever, make them while you can.

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2020, 01:52:41 PM »
Same in IL for the most part.

But this is in a parking lot.

Btw the state guidebook is clear to state that driving is a privilege, not a right.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15788
  • Total likes: 7317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2020, 02:27:37 PM »
Anyone who makes and idiodic statement like this should not own a gun. They don't know the first thing about selfdefense.

"It's different here, however, most cases merely drawing your weapon when attacked would scare someone off."
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2020, 02:42:51 PM »
Anyone who makes and idiodic statement like this should not own a gun. They don't know the first thing about selfdefense.
I think you may have misunderstood him here.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15788
  • Total likes: 7317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #54 on: January 01, 2020, 02:46:07 PM »
I think you may have misunderstood him here.
That happens a lot.  :)
So he is not saying to pull out your gun to scare someone off?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #55 on: January 01, 2020, 02:52:22 PM »
So he is not saying to pull out your gun to scare someone off?
I don't believe so.

I believe he's saying that in the types of situations occurring here in the US, just pulling out the firearm will often be enough to stop the threat, very often you won't need to actually shoot. (of course you should never pull it out if you're not prepared to use it there.) as opposed to in Israel, where the typical encounter is a terrorist attack where you'll need to shoot to end the threat.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15788
  • Total likes: 7317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #56 on: January 01, 2020, 02:58:35 PM »
I believe he's saying that in the types of situations occurring here in the US, just pulling out the firearm will often be enough to stop the threat, very often you won't need to actually shoot.
That sure sounds like you are scaring someone to me.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Offline whYME

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 3213
  • Total likes: 1241
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #57 on: January 01, 2020, 03:04:27 PM »
That sure sounds like you are scaring someone to me.
And that's a bad thing?

Offline chevron

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2013
  • Posts: 2552
  • Total likes: 543
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #58 on: January 01, 2020, 03:13:50 PM »
I don't believe so.

I believe he's saying that in the types of situations occurring here in the US, just pulling out the firearm will often be enough to stop the threat, very often you won't need to actually shoot. (of course you should never pull it out if you're not prepared to use it there.) as opposed to in Israel, where the typical encounter is a terrorist attack where you'll need to shoot to end the threat.

In Israel, they typically fire in air, there the threat can be a crowd etc stoning you or something similar.

A knife attack you'd need to fire and kill the terrorist. Usually these guys are suicidal mindset, occasionally they panic and run off.

In the USA though, most threats are warded off by drawing a weapon and as per the FL lawbook on CCW, lethal force is authorized if the threat doesn't end.. I.e. the person doesn't run or get on the ground etc.

My brother was robbed by 2 guys both with guns, all while he had a gun on him.. he gave them his wallet.

Again, common sense is critical.

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15788
  • Total likes: 7317
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: Can this be a blueprint?
« Reply #59 on: January 01, 2020, 03:18:06 PM »
And that's a bad thing?
Let me give you a real life example. Two guys got in an argument and it escalated into pushing and punching. One guy pulled out a gun and held it at his side. The other guy went nuts and kept yelling at him "come on tough guy shoot me". Fortunately others that were there got the situation under control.

The biggest mistake is pulling out a gun and thinking it will scare the person off.
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half