rubber rooms your tax dollars at work

[sguitarist18]

In my experience (and many union delegates I've worked with agree), the unions spend 99% of their time defending the employees who deserve to be fired, and everyone knows it.

[CountValentine]

In my experience (and many union delegates I've worked with agree), the unions spend 99% of their time defending the employees who deserve to be fired, and everyone knows it.

99% is high but I get your point. This is on the local level. Unions earn their money on the national level negotiating pay, benefits and other high priority things.

[ExGingi]

How would you handle the firing on individuals if there were no unions? Police come to mind with everything that is going on.

How about replacing unions with outside independent arbitrators? With legal framework to support it (rather than the legal framework empowering unions).

[CountValentine]

How about replacing unions with outside independent arbitrators? With legal framework to support it (rather than the legal framework empowering unions).

If we could get independent arbitrators that would work.

[sguitarist18]

There's already a framework in place - there are individuals or organizations whose job it is to decide matters between employers and unions. Why not just remove the unions and replace them with the employees directly?

And when I say 99%...I'm actually understating the case. I've worked for several employers, several different facilities...especially at the point where there are actual consequences - suspensions, termination, etc - you're always dealing with employees who could've been written up 10 times for every one we gave them.

Union is currently grieving a suspension we gave - the employee couldn't understand why we're picking on him, he's such a good employee that, "when you asked me to come on time, I come on time!" (translation - when I got a final warning a few weeks ago, I've been coming on time since then)

[CountValentine]

There's already a framework in place - there are individuals or organizations whose job it is to decide matters between employers and unions. Why not just remove the unions and replace them with the employees directly?

The employees would get eaten alive. I had to deal with these scumbag tactics USPS employed. Bottom line is if employers would treat employees fairly there would be no unions.

[sguitarist18]

What you seem to be saying that if 100% of employers treated their employees well, there would be no need for unions.

The fact is that in many workplaces, there's already no need for unions. But the landscape as it exists has most people believing that you need unions, and even the employees who don't want a union feel peer pressure to vote for a union. I still remember seeing a sign showing the union vote - 99 to 1 for having a union. Next to the "1", some had written some choice language describing the individual.

So everyone votes for and goes along with the union, even if they don't really want it. I've had employees who we were forced by the union to fire because they didn't want to be a part of the union and didn't want the union taking their money.

[CountValentine]

What you seem to be saying that if 100% of employers treated their employees well, there would be no need for unions.

The fact is that in many workplaces, there's already no need for unions. But the landscape as it exists has most people believing that you need unions, and even the employees who don't want a union feel peer pressure to vote for a union. I still remember seeing a sign showing the union vote - 99 to 1 for having a union. Next to the "1", some had written some choice language describing the individual.

So everyone votes for and goes along with the union, even if they don't really want it. I've had employees who we were forced by the union to fire because they didn't want to be a part of the union and didn't want the union taking their money.

The recent Amazon vote against the union shows you seem not to be objective.
I will say it again. Unions are a necessary evil.

Again with all its flaws the USPS model works. You can choose to join the union or not but receive all the benefits and protection.

ETA: https://apnews.com/article/alabama-jeff-bezos-57d69674978bd483f7285507ed168f70

[mushkovits]

The recent Amazon vote against the union shows you seem not to be objective.
I will say it again. Unions are a necessary evil.

Again with all its flaws the USPS model works. You can choose to join the union or not but receive all the benefits and protection.

ETA: https://apnews.com/article/alabama-jeff-bezos-57d69674978bd483f7285507ed168f70

In today’s age with all labor laws in place, ACLU organizations and its likes, are unions really still necessary?

[TimT]

Just look at the recent Amazon vote. Employees felt they were being treated fairly and voted the union down.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/amazon-prevented-free-and-fair-election-in-alabama-union-alleges.html