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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 950886 times)

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1800 on: November 01, 2016, 04:27:10 PM »
Story happened years ago, and for some reason it popped into my head and was wondering if it was muttar.

I was in a store, (Sears, I think) looking for a dishwasher. I may have had some coupon for free delivery and setup. Anyway, the salesperson comes over to me, and offers his help. I basicly knew already which model i wanted, so he said he would ring me up.
When he got to his cash register, he told me that on Saturday, they are having some sort of sale, so it pays to come back in on Saturday.
I explained that I could not do that. I guess I didn't explain well enough, because he then said that I can just call in on Saturday over the phone.
When I explained that I could not do that either, he offered to jot down my CC#, and he would put it through on Saturday. I said sure, and that is what happened.

Question: Is that allowed or is it doing schorah on Shabbos?
Is that not amira l'akum?

Offline yoruel

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1801 on: November 01, 2016, 04:37:40 PM »
Is that not amira l'akum?
Can sales person do it after shabbos?(Winter months, if store is still open)

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1802 on: November 01, 2016, 04:39:16 PM »
Can sales person do it after shabbos?(Winter months, if store is still open)
I dont think that was the case, cause I was unable to call in. So it must have been in the summer.
^^^

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1803 on: November 01, 2016, 04:48:23 PM »
Can sales person do it after shabbos?(Winter months, if store is still open)
why couldnt you ask someone before shabbos to do something after shabbos?

Offline yoruel

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1804 on: November 16, 2016, 03:56:33 PM »
i use someones Amazon prime, the prime wasn't delivered in 2 days.
i received email below.

To further compensate for the inconvenience caused I have extended your Prime membership by one month until Tuesday, June 6, 2017 and added a $5 promotional certificate to your account.


Who gets the $5 credit?

Online mochjas

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1805 on: November 16, 2016, 04:07:38 PM »
i use someones Amazon prime, the prime wasn't delivered in 2 days.
i received email below.

To further compensate for the inconvenience caused I have extended your Prime membership by one month until Tuesday, June 6, 2017 and added a $5 promotional certificate to your account.


Who gets the $5 credit?
are you serious?? he did you a favor and let you use his amazon account and you are fighting with him for $5

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1806 on: November 16, 2016, 04:13:36 PM »
are you serious?? he did you a favor and let you use his amazon account and you are fighting with him for $5
You can argue the opposite pretty easily too. That guy just got a free month of prime that he wouldn't have otherwise gotten (ie that benefit is going to the account holder no matter what). Giving the user the $5 credit seems reasonable.

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1807 on: November 16, 2016, 04:19:16 PM »
You can argue the opposite pretty easily too. That guy just got a free month of prime that he wouldn't have otherwise gotten (ie that benefit is going to the account holder no matter what). Giving the user the $5 credit seems reasonable.
its just petty either way

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1808 on: November 16, 2016, 04:25:00 PM »
i use someones Amazon prime, the prime wasn't delivered in 2 days.
i received email below.

To further compensate for the inconvenience caused I have extended your Prime membership by one month until Tuesday, June 6, 2017 and added a $5 promotional certificate to your account.


Who gets the $5 credit?
WHose account did they credit the $5 to?
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1809 on: November 16, 2016, 04:27:07 PM »
its just petty either way
I don't see it that way at all. I assume the only reason the user contacted CS anyway was in the hopes of getting a partial refund on their order, which likely would have gone directly back on their card. Instead, they were given compensation in a different form, one that is deposited by the account owner.

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1810 on: November 16, 2016, 04:28:59 PM »
I don't see it that way at all. I assume the only reason the user contacted CS anyway was in the hopes of getting a partial refund on their order, which likely would have gone directly back on their card. Instead, they were given compensation in a different form, one that is deposited by the account owner.
ok but he would not have been entitled to the refund if he didn't use the guys prime account.

Offline yoruel

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1811 on: November 16, 2016, 04:32:20 PM »
WHose account did they credit the $5 to?
I am not fighting for the $5.
I am looking for Halacha, i don't need the $5
They put it into the account, i borrowed the account to utilize the quick shipping.

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1812 on: November 16, 2016, 04:34:11 PM »
I am not fighting for the $5.
I am looking for Halacha, i don't need the $5
They put it into the account, i borrowed the account to utilize the quick shipping.
So how did it come to yourr email?

Either way, the refund is not for the item but for the Prime which didn't fulfill.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline yoruel

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1813 on: November 16, 2016, 04:39:52 PM »
So how did it come to your email?
The owner sent me the email.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1814 on: November 16, 2016, 05:45:06 PM »
ok but he would not have been entitled to the refund if he didn't use the guys prime account.
And the Prime member would not have been entitled to this compensation if he hadn't made an order that was late. Why is one deemed more important than the other.
So how did it come to yourr email?

Either way, the refund is not for the item but for the Prime which didn't fulfill.
But he 'borrowed' the Prime.

You borrowed a tool, and it malfunctioned while you were working on a project, ruining your project. The manufacturer replaces the tool (which you return to the owner), and sends a check for the damage to your project. Do you give the owner the check?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the answer to the question is that the compensation absolutely should go to the user. But everyone else seems to be saying it's clear cut that it should go to the Prime member, and I'm just pointing out what I deem to be a legitimate opposing argument.

Offline mordygross

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1815 on: November 16, 2016, 06:32:30 PM »
And the Prime member would not have been entitled to this compensation if he hadn't made an order that was late. Why is one deemed more important than the other.But he 'borrowed' the Prime.

You borrowed a tool, and it malfunctioned while you were working on a project, ruining your project. The manufacturer replaces the tool (which you return to the owner), and sends a check for the damage to your project. Do you give the owner the check?

Just to be clear, I'm not saying the answer to the question is that the compensation absolutely should go to the user. But everyone else seems to be saying it's clear cut that it should go to the Prime member, and I'm just pointing out what I deem to be a legitimate opposing argument.
Similar case in BM, where somebody borrowed someone else's couch, and it gets stolen. So he pays for the cow, and then they find a thief. And the thief pays כפל to whom?
כיצד הלאה עושה סחורה בפרתו של חבירו
Basically since it's a bonus, not damages, I would think the account owner can say the same here

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1816 on: November 16, 2016, 07:04:02 PM »
Similar case in BM, where somebody borrowed someone else's couch, and it gets stolen. So he pays for the cow, and then they find a thief. And the thief pays כפל to whom?
כיצד הלאה עושה סחורה בפרתו של חבירו
Basically since it's a bonus, not damages, I would think the account owner can say the same here
But that's the key question, isn't it? It can easily be viewed as damages.

Offline mordygross

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1817 on: November 16, 2016, 07:29:02 PM »
But that's the key question, isn't it? It can easily be viewed as damages.
Damages equals them giving you something that you, al pi din, are supposed to get. This is more like payment if a knas

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1818 on: November 16, 2016, 07:36:43 PM »
Damages equals them giving you something that you, al pi din, are supposed to get. This is more like payment if a knas
You're just kicking the can down the road. Should they not be paying something 'al pi din' in this case? What makes it a knas?

Offline yoruel

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1819 on: November 16, 2016, 07:40:30 PM »
I will ask my rav later tonight.
Please keep this a nice conversation.
I want to clarify from a halachic point.