All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions

[moko]

1. I hear. Need to think about it at a better time.
2. I think pshat is because the only reason you need eino Ben yomo is because of chanan.
3. Yes it does. The gaon calls it a kal vchomer from kisem

it would seem that chamimus hatanur ( that is decreasing)is only as gechalim oimimos which the mechaber paskens like the rashba that it doesn't help and the rema isn't magiah. The aruch hashulchan does say that the rashba is leshitasoi and the rema was already magiah earlier but says tzarich iyun lehalacha. R' Binyamin Cohen says it doesn't help. It's a big shaila lemaiseh on commercial convection ovens

[good sam]

Ikkar havdalah regarding melachah is havdalah b't'fillah.

Ner is not havdalah. It is ner. It so happens that they were m'sakein to say it during havdalah al hakos, but it's not m'akeiv.

If we weren't supposed to say havdalah b't'fillah, maybe they wouldn't have been m'sakein ner during havdalah al hakos.

We are, though, so the question doesn't even begin.

Mishna Brura says if one forgot Ata Chonantanu, he does not go back, and need not even mention it in Shima Koleinu or before taking 3 steps back because he'll make havdala at home anyway.

But why doesn't he recommend mentioning it there because he'll otherwise be required to say baruch hamavdil before lighting the ner?

[Cheesecake]

Mishna Brura says if one forgot Ata Chonantanu, he does not go back, and need not even mention it in Shima Koleinu or before taking 3 steps back because he'll make havdala at home anyway.

But why doesn't he recommend mentioning it there because he'll otherwise be required to say baruch hamavdil before lighting the ner?

Once it's not considered havdalah b't'fillah, there's no advantage of saying it then vs. baruch hamavdil.

[churnbabychurn]

Which poskim say covering the knobs with no blech works?

Supposedly Rav Aharon

[aygart]

it would seem that chamimus hatanur ( that is decreasing)is only as gechalim oimimos which the mechaber paskens like the rashba that it doesn't help and the rema isn't magiah. The aruch hashulchan does say that the rashba is leshitasoi and the rema was already magiah earlier but says tzarich iyun lehalacha. R' Binyamin Cohen says it doesn't help. It's a big shaila lemaiseh on commercial convection ovens

Are you referring to seif 10? That is a case where the coals were lit by a goy-ShaCh 8. Heat remain in an oven is better than kisem GRA 112.20. It would be an issue not only in connection ovens but any oven with a thermostat.

[moko]

Are you referring to seif 10? That is a case where the coals were lit by a goy-ShaCh 8. Heat remain in an oven is better than kisem GRA 112.20. It would be an issue not only in connection ovens but any oven with a thermostat.

Thats what my boss keeps saying.
But I think in the caae of the thermostat ths no bishul akum because the goy wasnt mevatel the maseh of the yisrael, but in the case of the convection oven when the goy shuts off the oven he's mevatel the maseh of the yisrael

[aygart]

Thats what my boss keeps saying.
But I think in the caae of the thermostat ths no bishul akum because the goy wasnt mevatel the maseh of the yisrael, but in the case of the convection oven when the goy shuts off the oven he's mevatel the maseh of the yisrael

If the goy put the food into the oven and we can't consider it to be aish yisroel it would be bishul akum. What is the source for this concept of the goy being mevatel the maase of the yiroel?

[moko]

If the goy put the food into the oven and we can't consider it to be aish yisroel it would be bishul akum. What is the source for this concept of the goy being mevatel the maase of the yiroel?

Gemara/shu"a. yisrael put the food on the fire and the goy flipped it. in that case the goy removed the food in this case the goy removed the oven

[aygart]

Gemara/shu"a. yisrael put the food on the fire and the goy flipped it. in that case the goy removed the food in this case the goy removed the oven

If there is heat remaining in the oven then why would it be different than him placing lit wood into an oven which has heat remaining but no wood? In the case where he removed the food from the fire (which according to RMA must not be aish yisroel)  it was not yet cooked KB"D and now it is getting cooked totally by the goy. It has nothing to do with being mevatel the maase of the yisroel. In a case where there is nishar chom it is like kisem and the fire which the goy adds later has a din of aish yisroel.

[A3]

Are Jews allowed to have Hanaha הנאה from a church?

[Cheesecake]

Supposedly Rav Aharon

Rav Moshe definitely says not.

[good sam]

Once it's not considered havdalah b't'fillah, there's no advantage of saying it then vs. baruch hamavdil.

Nah, the MB would have said that. Instead he said the reason we don't is because we'll make havdala on the kos later anyway. But if we'll need to pre-make havdala then, why not do it now in tefilla?

[Cheesecake]

Nah, the MB would have said that. Instead he said the reason we don't is because we'll make havdala on the kos later anyway. But if we'll need to pre-make havdala then, why not do it now in tefilla?

So you're trying to be medayek that you're allowed to do melachah without saying boruch hamavdil??

[good sam]

So you're trying to be medayek that you're allowed to do melachah without saying boruch hamavdil??

No. I'm wondering why this quirk is not discussed, or even recognized, in the poskim. I'd like to see one sefer just mention that if you forgot Ata Chonantanu, you must say baruch hamavdil before lighting the candle.

[Cheesecake]

No. I'm wondering why this quirk is not discussed, or even recognized, in the poskim. I'd like to see one sefer just mention that if you forgot Ata Chonantanu, you must say baruch hamavdil before lighting the candle.

Because it is obvious.

[koplonko]

No. I'm wondering why this quirk is not discussed, or even recognized, in the poskim. I'd like to see one sefer just mention that if you forgot Ata Chonantanu, you must say baruch hamavdil before lighting the candle.

So open some seforim and read. I see a magen avraham and shu"a harav that say it clearly

[mochjas]

Because it is obvious.

seriously why do you need someone to tell you that. It's obvious that before you can do melacha you need some type of havdala whether ata chonantanu or Baruch hamavdil

[aygart]

the problem of hatmana still exists

Hatmana would lchoira be similar to playing something wrapped in foil into the cholent according to most of the svaros mentioned in that tumult. RSZA is matir among many others. (The Chazon Ish is based on a shita most use only as a chumra not a kula). Even among the machmirim this may be included in the svara of Minchas Yitzchok that when it is the way to cook it we would not call it hatmana.

I don't think that this can be called megula lmaala.

[chinagel]

Even among the machmirim this may be included in the svara of Minchas Yitzchok that when it is the way to cook it we would not call it hatmana.

what does that mean? any hatmana is the "way to cook it"

[aygart]

what does that mean? any hatmana is the "way to cook it"

No, it is the way to keep it warm.