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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 645412 times)

Offline moko

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4220 on: February 19, 2020, 03:12:37 AM »
And how would you define his agenda??
Can you give an example of a Talmid Chacham that said something knowingly false on the program?
not publicly. That would be suicidal. Suffice it to say it was during his kashrus series. Unfortunately these were not just people I know, but rather people I respected and some were mentors.

His mind is made up before interviewing his subjects. It's clear from how he interviews them. He doesn't ask the same questions to guests with opposing views.
The only person I ever heard stand their ground and not get into the gutter with him was @Dan

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4221 on: February 19, 2020, 07:50:14 AM »
Agree. I referred to that tshuva in above. You quoted that correctly.
Yet the point which he was trying to bring out from the letter to R' Weinfeld, namely that the entire heter should not be used by individuals, is not there. That is VERY different unless you say that this letter too needs to be understood based on the context of being about what schools should buy.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4222 on: February 19, 2020, 08:52:36 AM »
not publicly. That would be suicidal. Suffice it to say it was during his kashrus series. Unfortunately these were not just people I know, but rather people I respected and some were mentors.

His mind is made up before interviewing his subjects. It's clear from how he interviews them. He doesn't ask the same questions to guests with opposing views.
The only person I ever heard stand their ground and not get into the gutter with him was @Dan
The guys from the OU also know how to handle him

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4223 on: February 19, 2020, 08:53:32 AM »
Yet the point which he was trying to bring out from the letter to R' Weinfeld, namely that the entire heter should not be used by individuals, is not there. That is VERY different unless you say that this letter too needs to be understood based on the context of being about what schools should buy.

Or unless you take the more obvious route, which is that the letter to Rabbi Weinfeld (where he starts out noting that many individuals in America [this clearly seems to be referring to the המון עם] are meikel since C”Y is difficult to obtain- yet , in places where C”Y is obtainable these same individuals [המון עם]should be machmir) is a clear indication that when he says מן הראוי לבעלי נפש להחמיר in יו״ד ב׳ ל״ה he has a much lower bar than the way some want to interpret it.

Online avromie7

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4224 on: February 19, 2020, 09:25:06 AM »
Or unless you take the more obvious route, which is that the letter to Rabbi Weinfeld (where he starts out noting that many individuals in America [this clearly seems to be referring to the המון עם] are meikel since C”Y is difficult to obtain- yet , in places where C”Y is obtainable these same individuals [המון עם]should be machmir) is a clear indication that when he says מן הראוי לבעלי נפש להחמיר in יו״ד ב׳ ל״ה he has a much lower bar than the way some want to interpret it.
You should probably see R' Reuven's sefer Divrei Sholom (in english) where he explains the reason a baal nefesh should be machmir.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4225 on: February 19, 2020, 09:36:27 AM »
You should probably see R' Reuven's sefer Divrei Sholom (in english) where he explains the reason a baal nefesh should be machmir.
R’Reuven’s position is pretty clear.

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4226 on: February 19, 2020, 09:52:20 AM »
R’ Reuven’s position is pretty clear.
And R' Reuven says his position is his fathers position, so I'll go with his interpretation over yours.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4227 on: February 19, 2020, 10:20:26 AM »
And R' Reuven says his position is his fathers position, so I'll go with his interpretation over yours.
Ok let’s stop debating any teshuvos in the Igros across all 4 Chelkei Shulchan Aruch, toss out the tens of thousands of pages and teshuvos mechabrei sefarim have written over the last 4 decades debating them and just go with what Rav Reuven and Rav Dovid say they understood to be Rav Moshe’s position. Got it.

Offline good sam

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4228 on: February 19, 2020, 10:26:15 AM »
Ok let’s stop debating any teshuvos in the Igros across all 4 Chelkei Shulchan Aruch, toss out the tens of thousands of pages and teshuvos mechabrei sefarim have written over the last 4 decades debating them and just go with what Rav Reuven and Rav Dovid say they understood to be Rav Moshe’s position. Got it.
Don't R Reuven and R Dovid also have access to the igros?
If you don't care why would you comment?
HT: DMYD

Offline Yard sale

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4229 on: February 19, 2020, 10:29:17 AM »
Are those who are relying on Rav Moshe to justify Cholov Stam as quick to follow Rav Moshe in his other psakim where he is likewise somewhat of a mechadesh and a minority opinion? For example, do they refrain from eating Wise Potato Chips since Rav Moshe held there was a Bishul Akum concern (as per his son that Rav Moshe did know what potato chips were, and was indeed referring to them)? Or what about automating things in the home other than the lighting on shabbos and yom tov? Or is it only when it is convenient to follow Rav Moshe because that Häagen-Dazs is creamy and delicious?

This is a poor argument.

That would depend on what their argument is. If they are simply saying that the minhag in America
was to follow Rav Moshes psak on Chalav Stam  at the time when they were maybe a dozen chalav yisroel products but that still holds true today when you have hundreds and perhaps thousands of products and it is at best a minor inconvenience to eat chalav Yisrael, one would have to know if that is a valid argument. There are many things that Klal Yisrael was not makpid on when times were difficult that have completely changed as the situation changed, such as hiddurim in mikvaos, buying lulavim for each child, and many others.

 On the other hand, if their argument is that  Rav Moshe was the preeminent posek in America so we should be following his psak, minhag or no minhag, then what I wrote above is absolutely valid.

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4230 on: February 19, 2020, 10:34:39 AM »
Don't R Reuven and R Dovid also have access to the igros?
I don’t know if they have access to the two letters above that are not in the Igros. Regardless, their opinion carries weight as the opinions of Ran Reuvein and Rav Dovid, which are certainly choshuv in their own right especially for those who follow their opinions in other areas, not as the final word on Rav Moshe’s intentions, just as the beis yosef and many others constantly disagree with the Tur on his understanding of the psakim of his father the Rosh.

 Just to take one example, ask Rav Dovid how he views his  fathers psakim that relate to operating a non-kosher healthcare facility and you will find that the widespread Jewish practice relies  partially on an understanding of Rav Moshe’s position that they would say is incorrect and therefore involves severe prohibitions.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:40:55 AM by cmey »

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4231 on: February 19, 2020, 10:41:55 AM »
Or unless you take the more obvious route, which is that the letter to Rabbi Weinfeld (where he starts out noting that many individuals in America [this clearly seems to be referring to the המון עם] are meikel since C”Y is difficult to obtain- yet , in places where C”Y is obtainable these same individuals [המון עם]should be machmir) is a clear indication that when he says מן הראוי לבעלי נפש להחמיר in יו״ד ב׳ ל״ה he has a much lower bar than the way some want to interpret it.
That is fine. I fully agree that the simple understanding across Igros Moshe is not that only someone known as a baal nefesh should be machmir. There are many places in Igros where he implies otherwise as well. On the other hand, it is quite clear in Igros that his intent was not that whenever there is CY milk available his heter does not apply as you and others are trying to advance. There are places in Igros where he uses the language of "rauy lihachmir" as well. That does not mean it only applies in a shaas hadchak. It was regarding that language that I wrote
There have been other similar letters found as well. Each one was, like this one, promoting having cholov yisroel available for the public and not regarding an individual.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4232 on: February 19, 2020, 10:43:37 AM »
That would depend on what their argument is. If they are simply saying that the minhag in America
was to follow Rav Moshes psak on Chalav Stam  at the time when they were maybe a dozen chalav yisroel products but that still holds true today when you have hundreds and perhaps thousands of products and it is at best a minor inconvenience to eat chalav Yisrael, one would have to know if that is a valid argument. There are many things that Klal Yisrael was not makpid on when times were difficult that have completely changed as the situation changed, such as hiddurim in mikvaos, buying lulavim for each child, and many others.

 On the other hand, if their argument is that  Rav Moshe was the preeminent posek in America so we should be following his psak, minhag or no minhag, then what I wrote above is absolutely valid.
The minhag for the vast majority of frum yidden in America remains to rely on Rav Moshe regarding this.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4233 on: February 19, 2020, 10:45:11 AM »
I don’t know if they have access to the two letters above that are not in the Igros. Regardless, their opinion carries weight as the opinions of Ran Reuvein and Rav Dovid, which are certainly choshuv in their own right especially for those who follow their opinions in other areas, not as the final word on Rav Moshe’s intentions, just as the beis yosef and many others constantly disagree with the Tur on his understanding of the psakim of his father the Rosh.

 Just to take one example, ask Rav Dovid how he views his  fathers psakim that relate to operating a non-kosher healthcare facility and you will find that the widespread Jewish practice relies  partially on an understanding of Rav Moshe’s position that they would say is incorrect and therefore involves severe prohibitions.
Ahhh, you and I have access but they don't. Got it.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4234 on: February 19, 2020, 10:51:22 AM »
Ahhh, you and I have access but they don't. Got it.
Did u know about Rabbi Weinfelds letter before i posted it? Did you know about the new letter found that was the start of this discussion prior to it being posted here? I didn’t . Those are the two letters I am referring to. What makes you think they are aware of those letters either?
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:55:54 AM by cmey »

Offline cmey

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4235 on: February 19, 2020, 10:52:37 AM »
That is fine. I fully agree that the simple understanding across Igros Moshe is not that only someone known as a baal nefesh should be machmir. There are many places in Igros where he implies otherwise as well. On the other hand, it is quite clear in Igros that his intent was not that whenever there is CY milk available his heter does not apply as you and others are trying to advance. There are places in Igros where he uses the language of "rauy lihachmir" as well. That does not mean it only applies in a shaas hadchak. It was regarding that language that I wrote
Fair enough

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4236 on: February 19, 2020, 10:54:23 AM »
Did u know about Rabbi Weinfelds letter before I posted it?  Did you know about the new litter found that was the start of this discussion prior to it being posted here? I didn’t . Those are the two letters I am referring to. What makes you think they are aware of those letters either?
That letter was publicly distributed in 1977. You don't think anywhen ever showed it to them? The letter to Rabbi Ochs was actually published in chelek8 IIRC.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4237 on: February 23, 2020, 11:25:38 AM »
So ordering this when you know it's a mistake and you're planning and getting your money back as you only received 1 vs 8 like promised in the title description, is....?
   Or they offer to send you another 7 for free.

 Definitely don't think it's yashrus, what about being muttur lihalacha? Probably the same as target?

https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=114166.msg2202989#msg2202989
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4238 on: February 24, 2020, 08:06:42 PM »

Offline EliJelly

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4239 on: February 24, 2020, 11:26:29 PM »
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/kashrus-anytime/id1472242919?i=1000444681910

MUST LISTEN! Just the first 3 minutes will suffice
Who's this? Regardless, if we take his words, basically Rav Moshe himself told him that anywhere CY is accessible, cholov stam would not be permissible at all, he even asked the guy who drank CS "מי התיר לך".

There is no way that can be reconciled with what others here were saying:
2) R' Reuven says he held it's muttar l'chatchila.
Rav Reuven told me clearly that a baal nefesh is a very high madreigah, and that he himself does not feel that he is holding there (approx. 5 years ago), but since people perceive him as being a real baal nefesh, he himself is machmir. And that for me, there is no reason to (unless they are basically the same price).
Which brings me again to the following:
therefore I'm skeptical when I hear that R' Reuven isn't makpid because he doesn't consider himself on the madreigeh of a baal nefesh.   And given this letter, I'm even more skeptical.
Any word of what is R' Dovid's opinion on this matter?