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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S Siman
SF Seif
SHUA Shulchan Aruch
SK Seif Katan
WTM Whats The Mekor (?)
YMMV Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 466562 times)

Offline avromie7

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4740 on: November 27, 2020, 10:11:39 AM »
The food does tend to leak occasionally. That being said, fish cooked in a clean fleshing pot is pareve in any case. Some have a minhag to use a dedicated fish pot but it is doubtful that minhag would apply here (safek yad soledes, etc.).

Many of not most  poskim would not allow sous vide on shabbos (shehiya, hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel) some are more lenient. Ask your LOR.
And can be eaten with dairy?
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Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4741 on: November 27, 2020, 10:48:18 AM »
all discussed at length in the Food and Recipe thread.
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Offline eyj

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4743 on: November 27, 2020, 03:00:30 PM »
130 degrees is a safek Yad soledes both according to Rav Moshe and Rav Aharon and therefore it is treated as Yed Soledes Lechumrah (in other words, for basar v'cholov and issur bishul/shehiyah on shabbos, but we would also consider it not Yad solodes lechumrah, in that it wouldn't be considered mevushal to reheat in conventional methods)
I would not be macir regarding the minhag some have to have a separate fish pot when there is a safek if it leaks and safek yad soledes.

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4744 on: November 27, 2020, 03:03:28 PM »
I would not be macir regarding the minhag some have to have a separate fish pot when there is a safek if it leaks and safek yad soledes.
I was not refering to that chumrah. I was only answering that the fish would be considered fleishig and cannot be eating with milchig and also about Shabbos.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:13:04 PM by yungermanchik »
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Offline eyj

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4745 on: November 28, 2020, 08:09:05 PM »
I was not refering to that chumrah. I was only answering that the fish would be considered fleishig and cannot be eating with milchig and also about Shabbos.
I would be ok with treating the fish as pareve if the pot hasnt been used with meat in 24 hours.
See Pri Megadim SD 95:2 regarding 3 NATs. His reasoning should apply here as well since there is no chashash that the fish touches the actual pot. Certainly if it is a stam kli there is reason to be meikel ( aino ben yomo -see Gra- possibly 3 NATs 2 Keilim, safek yad soledes etc.)

Regarding shabbos there are definitely reasons to be machmir but regarding shehiya/ hatmana I would look into whether the heating elements inside the sous vide unit actually come to a glow (red hot) or if they operate at a lower temperature which might not be considered aish.


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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4746 on: November 28, 2020, 09:31:52 PM »
I would be ok with treating the fish as pareve if the pot hasnt been used with meat in 24 hours.
See Pri Megadim SD 95:2 regarding 3 NATs. His reasoning should apply here as well since there is no chashash that the fish touches the actual pot. Certainly if it is a stam kli there is reason to be meikel ( aino ben yomo -see Gra- possibly 3 NATs 2 Keilim, safek yad soledes etc.)
Yes, i am aware of that: see a prior discussion here:
A Posek that I know spoke to Rav Moshe Feinstein about it and he also pakened like the GRA's understanding of the RaMA [Others (IIRC the Aruch Hashulchan) learn the RaMA differently that he's only talking about the mixing lechatchila not the original intent of the cooking]
but he did not mention that it was aino ben yomo, and even 3 nats would not work by a ben yomo. I was correcting his misconception that "boiling" plays a role here. (Also the Pri Chadash learns that if they are all connected at the same time it's still considered the same nat, although I wouldn't be machmir like that)
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Offline eyj

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4747 on: November 28, 2020, 11:02:06 PM »
Yes, i am aware of that: see a prior discussion here:  but he did not mention that it was aino ben yomo, and even 3 nats would not work by a ben yomo. I was correcting his misconception that "boiling" plays a role here. (Also the Pri Chadash learns that if they are all connected at the same time it's still considered the same nat, although I wouldn't be machmir like that)
The Pri Megadim is talking about a ben yomo and is mistapek that 3 NATs are mutar even according to the Rama where it is not possible for  the vegetables to directly touch the walls of the pot.

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4748 on: November 29, 2020, 08:34:30 PM »
could I put some salmon in right before shabbos and then take it out right before lunch?
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos
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Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4749 on: November 29, 2020, 09:52:03 PM »
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos
Not if you put it in raw right before shabbos.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4750 on: November 29, 2020, 09:59:19 PM »
- How does this impact cooking for shabbos using it - i.e. given the cooler temperatures, could I put some salmon in right before shabbos and then take it out right before lunch?
Would this not be considered הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל? (which is definitely assur regardless of cooking stage)

In any case, covering the buttons on the machines will help render it גרופה וקטומה according to some opinions. I don't know offhand if it's necessary and if it's sufficient.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4751 on: November 29, 2020, 10:12:30 PM »
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos
There isn't something necessarily wrong with something that will cook on Shabbos, and מאכל בן דרוסאי doesn't always help according to all opinions that is better to be machmir like.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4752 on: November 29, 2020, 11:32:55 PM »
Not if you put it in raw right before shabbos.
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperature can be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4753 on: November 29, 2020, 11:34:23 PM »
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperature can be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)
That is very debatable, but yes on the lenient parts at least.
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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4754 on: November 29, 2020, 11:35:08 PM »
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperatures can't be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)
FTFY
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