Topic Wiki

Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 1178602 times)

Online avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8538
  • Total likes: 2921
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4740 on: November 27, 2020, 10:11:39 AM »
The food does tend to leak occasionally. That being said, fish cooked in a clean fleshing pot is pareve in any case. Some have a minhag to use a dedicated fish pot but it is doubtful that minhag would apply here (safek yad soledes, etc.).

Many of not most  poskim would not allow sous vide on shabbos (shehiya, hatmana bedavar hamosif hevel) some are more lenient. Ask your LOR.
And can be eaten with dairy?
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19761
  • Total likes: 16342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4741 on: November 27, 2020, 10:48:18 AM »
all discussed at length in the Food and Recipe thread.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 3063
  • Total likes: 2555
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline eyj

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 104
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4743 on: November 27, 2020, 03:00:30 PM »
130 degrees is a safek Yad soledes both according to Rav Moshe and Rav Aharon and therefore it is treated as Yed Soledes Lechumrah (in other words, for basar v'cholov and issur bishul/shehiyah on shabbos, but we would also consider it not Yad solodes lechumrah, in that it wouldn't be considered mevushal to reheat in conventional methods)
I would not be macir regarding the minhag some have to have a separate fish pot when there is a safek if it leaks and safek yad soledes.

Online yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 3063
  • Total likes: 2555
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4744 on: November 27, 2020, 03:03:28 PM »
I would not be macir regarding the minhag some have to have a separate fish pot when there is a safek if it leaks and safek yad soledes.
I was not refering to that chumrah. I was only answering that the fish would be considered fleishig and cannot be eating with milchig and also about Shabbos.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 03:13:04 PM by yungermanchik »
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline eyj

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 104
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4745 on: November 28, 2020, 08:09:05 PM »
I was not refering to that chumrah. I was only answering that the fish would be considered fleishig and cannot be eating with milchig and also about Shabbos.
I would be ok with treating the fish as pareve if the pot hasn’t been used with meat in 24 hours.
See Pri Megadim S”D 95:2 regarding 3 NATs. His reasoning should apply here as well since there is no chashash that the fish touches the actual pot. Certainly if it is a stam kli there is reason to be meikel ( aino ben yomo -see Gr”a- possibly 3 NATs 2 Keilim, safek yad soledes etc.)

Regarding shabbos there are definitely reasons to be machmir but regarding shehiya/ hatmana I would look into whether the heating elements inside the sous vide unit actually come to a glow (red hot) or if they operate at a lower temperature which might not be considered aish.


Online yungermanchik

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Nov 2018
  • Posts: 3063
  • Total likes: 2555
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: Previous Signatures: If you chapped hana'ah from a post, like it; You think you know the answers and things are the way they seem.. it just ain't so -The Rebbe from Lublin-
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4746 on: November 28, 2020, 09:31:52 PM »
I would be ok with treating the fish as pareve if the pot hasn’t been used with meat in 24 hours.
See Pri Megadim S”D 95:2 regarding 3 NATs. His reasoning should apply here as well since there is no chashash that the fish touches the actual pot. Certainly if it is a stam kli there is reason to be meikel ( aino ben yomo -see Gr”a- possibly 3 NATs 2 Keilim, safek yad soledes etc.)
Yes, i am aware of that: see a prior discussion here:
A Posek that I know spoke to Rav Moshe Feinstein about it and he also pakened like the GRA's understanding of the RaMA [Others (IIRC the Aruch Hashulchan) learn the RaMA differently that he's only talking about the mixing lechatchila not the original intent of the cooking]
but he did not mention that it was aino ben yomo, and even 3 nats would not work by a ben yomo. I was correcting his misconception that "boiling" plays a role here. (Also the Pri Chadash learns that if they are all connected at the same time it's still considered the same nat, although I wouldn't be machmir like that)
Small people talk about other people.
Average people talk about things
BIG PEOPLE TALK ABOUT IDEAS.

Offline eyj

  • Dansdeals Gold Elite
  • ***
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 104
  • Total likes: 47
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4747 on: November 28, 2020, 11:02:06 PM »
Yes, i am aware of that: see a prior discussion here:  but he did not mention that it was aino ben yomo, and even 3 nats would not work by a ben yomo. I was correcting his misconception that "boiling" plays a role here. (Also the Pri Chadash learns that if they are all connected at the same time it's still considered the same nat, although I wouldn't be machmir like that)
The Pri Megadim is talking about a ben yomo and is mistapek that 3 NATs are mutar even according to the Rama where it is not possible for  the vegetables to directly touch the walls of the pot.

Online ~King Lake~

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2019
  • Posts: 1336
  • Total likes: 1061
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: i wish israel
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4748 on: November 29, 2020, 08:34:30 PM »
could I put some salmon in right before shabbos and then take it out right before lunch?
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19761
  • Total likes: 16342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4749 on: November 29, 2020, 09:52:03 PM »
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos
Not if you put it in raw right before shabbos.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15192
  • Total likes: 2493
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4750 on: November 29, 2020, 09:59:19 PM »
- How does this impact cooking for shabbos using it - i.e. given the cooler temperatures, could I put some salmon in right before shabbos and then take it out right before lunch?
Would this not be considered הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל? (which is definitely assur regardless of cooking stage)

In any case, covering the buttons on the machines will help render it גרופה וקטומה according to some opinions. I don't know offhand if it's necessary and if it's sufficient.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15192
  • Total likes: 2493
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4751 on: November 29, 2020, 10:12:30 PM »
There is on more thing to take into consideration for putting it in right before shabbos that you'll have to make sure that it's cooked k'machal ben driso'u (1/3 cooked) before the zman, otherwise it's considered being cooked on shabbos
There isn't something necessarily wrong with something that will cook on Shabbos, and מאכל בן דרוסאי doesn't always help according to all opinions that is better to be machmir like.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3770
  • Total likes: 4509
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4752 on: November 29, 2020, 11:32:55 PM »
Not if you put it in raw right before shabbos.
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperature can be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19761
  • Total likes: 16342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4753 on: November 29, 2020, 11:34:23 PM »
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperature can be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)
That is very debatable, but yes on the lenient parts at least.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Online ~King Lake~

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2019
  • Posts: 1336
  • Total likes: 1061
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: i wish israel
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4754 on: November 29, 2020, 11:35:08 PM »
A Sous Vide is perhaps the only cooking method where the heter of raw still applies today. The food is probably still in raw status at the shkiah, and the food can't be completely cooked for the Friday night seudah. (Assuming temperatures can't be raised too high, otherwise it would still require גו׳׳ק)
FTFY

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3770
  • Total likes: 4509
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile

Offline PlatinumGuy

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Apr 2011
  • Posts: 15192
  • Total likes: 2493
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 11
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4756 on: November 29, 2020, 11:36:27 PM »
Would is Sous Vide not הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל?
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3770
  • Total likes: 4509
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4757 on: November 29, 2020, 11:36:55 PM »
That is very debatable, but yes on the lenient parts at least.
Which part?

Online EliJelly

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jan 2019
  • Posts: 3770
  • Total likes: 4509
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4758 on: November 29, 2020, 11:38:21 PM »
Would is Sous Vide not הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל?
Why is it הטמנה and not bishul? Because it's in a bag?

Offline aygart

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 19761
  • Total likes: 16342
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
    • Lower Watt Energy Brokers
  • Programs: www.lowerwatt.com
Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4759 on: November 29, 2020, 11:38:37 PM »
What part?
That otherwise it does not apply now.
Feelings don't care about your facts