All Halocha Shailos and Tefilla Questions

[EliJelly]

That otherwise it does not apply now.

I mentioned 2 requirements to be met, which one are you referring to?

[aygart]

I mentioned 2 requirements to be met, which one are you referring to?

Both

[PlatinumGuy]

Why is it הטמנה and not bishul? Because it's in a bag?

The two aren't contradictory.
בישול isn't assur unless it's מיחזי כמבשל בשבת or שמא יחתה בגחלים.
הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל is assur regarless.

אין הטמנה באוכלים so I guess the water in the Sous Vide may be considered אוכלין

Sous Vide is more of הטמנה than anything we would commonly do nowadays because you would need to cover the food directly with somebody that increases the heat and doesn't only retain the heat.

[EliJelly]

Sous Vide is more of הטמנה than anything we would commonly do nowadays because you would need to cover the food directly with somebody that increases the heat and doesn't only retain the heat.

Cover with?

[PlatinumGuy]

Cover with?

Say, wrap a blanket around a pot. But a blanket only retains heat, it doesn't increase the heat. (Still can be an issue, just not as big).

A Sous Vide, prima facie, would be akin to placing food under burning charcoal that increases the heat of the food, which is הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל

[PlatinumGuy]

https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/הטמנה_(שבת)

[EliJelly]

Say, wrap a blanket around a pot. But a blanket only retains heat, it doesn't increase the heat. (Still can be an issue, just not as big).

A Sous Vide, prima facie, would be akin to placing food under burning charcoal that increases the heat of the food, which is הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל

Correct, wrapping a blanket together with Sous vide could render it הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל.

[yesitsme]

Not if you put it in raw right before shabbos.

Fish? IIRC only meat that takes a while to cook, fish doesn't need more then 20 minutes

[PlatinumGuy]

אין הטמנה באוכלים so I guess the water in the Sous Vide may be considered אוכלין

https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/משנה_ברורה_על_אורח_חיים_רנח

It appears the Mishna Berura doesn't consider hot water to be אוכלים for this purpose (although he's talking about a different scenario). I think other Achronim may disagree, but it can def be a real issue.

[EliJelly]

Both

If you give me your clear position I can respond accordingly.

[PlatinumGuy]

Correct, wrapping a blanket together with Sous vide could render it הטמנה בדבר המוסיף הבל.

You're missing the point. Putting the fish/chicken in the hot water is הטמנה. The hot water is like a blanket to the food.

[PlatinumGuy]

Most scenarios of placing food on a hot plate/oven, especially nowadays, are going be Chumros at best. Important Chumros, but Chumros.

הטמנה is a full blown איסור דרבנן

[EliJelly]

You're missing the point. Putting the fish/chicken in the hot water is הטמנה. The hot water is like a blanket to the food.

And how about putting the kugel wrapped in silver foil in the cholent pot?

[yitzgar]

And how about putting the kugel wrapped in silver foil in the cholent pot?

I think the star k article linked above pointed out the difference between the two

[EliJelly]

Most scenarios of placing food on a hot plate/oven, especially nowadays, are going be Chumros at best. Important Chumros, but Chumros.

הטמנה is a full blown איסור דרבנן

איסורי דרבנן are in no way חומרות. They are גופי הלכות. Violating שהיה והטמנה sometimes even renders the food forbidden to eat.

[PlatinumGuy]

איסורי דרבנן are in no way חומרות. They are גופי הלכות. Violating שהיה והטמנה sometimes even renders the food forbidden to eat.

חס ושלום. My point was that most cases are not שהיה מעיקר הדין and are only a problem because we are Machmir to be חושש for Rishonim the Shu’a / Rama Pasken against.

[PlatinumGuy]

And how about putting the kugel wrapped in silver foil in the cholent pot?

אין הטמנה באוכלים but it can definitely be an issue.

[EliJelly]

I think the star k article linked above pointed out the difference between the two

Which link?
It all depends what the reason of the covering is. Putting a bottle of baby formula entirely submerged in hot water surely is, while kugel in silver foil isn't (according to many poskim). The day will come when I'll start to use a Sous vide I'll need to figure out what purpose the bag serves and whether it's hatmanah even without being wrapped in a blanket.

[EliJelly]

חס ושלום. My point was that most cases are not שהיה מעיקר הדין and are only a problem because we are Machmir to be חושש for Rishonim the Shu’a / Rama Pasken against.

Right, once it's k'machel ben drosuei.

[PlatinumGuy]

Right, once it's k'machel ben drosuei.

Or חי or גרוף וקטום