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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 584559 times)

Offline moko

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4940 on: May 20, 2021, 05:06:02 PM »
Name something that looks from the Chumash to be a capital offense, but actually isn't.
that wasn't the question and clearly many on this forum are missing seichal hayashar in terms of posting content.

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4941 on: May 20, 2021, 05:21:08 PM »
That means they made a decision to stop practicing it, not that
there weren't any cases that presented themselves after that.
Not sure how that in any way goes against what I was saying. The point is that actual capital punishment hasn't existed in judaism for 2000 years. People transgressing prohibitions punishable by death certainly hasn't stopped in the interim. Also, while it's true that the sanhedrin removed themselves from the lishkas hagazis in order to avoid (? not sure if that's the right word here) judging capital cases, with the destruction of the bais hamikdash 40 years later they wouldn't have been able to resume regardless (no lishkas hagazis), and with the end of semicha a few hundred years later the formation of a sanhedrin (even ketana) became impossible.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4942 on: May 20, 2021, 05:26:43 PM »
Name something that looks from the Chumash to be a capital offense, but actually isn't.

Killing a fetus.

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4943 on: May 20, 2021, 05:29:07 PM »
Killing a fetus.
Isn't it a permited kill vs not a kill? Like Shabbos, a capital offense offset by saving of life?
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Offline Randomex

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4944 on: May 20, 2021, 05:39:28 PM »
Isn't it a permited kill vs not a kill? Like Shabbos, a capital offense offset by saving of life?

His point wasn't that abortion is sometimes required but that abortion is never a capital offense.
I no longer have constant Internet access, so you won't be seeing quite as much of me.

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4945 on: May 20, 2021, 05:41:45 PM »
He didn't say "in order to save the life of the mother."
I was under the impression that only then is it permitted.
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Offline Randomex

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4946 on: May 20, 2021, 05:44:18 PM »
(I've edited that post to better express what I meant.)
I no longer have constant Internet access, so you won't be seeing quite as much of me.

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4947 on: May 20, 2021, 05:47:39 PM »
His point wasn't that abortion is sometimes required but that abortion is never a capital offense.

Pasuk says שופך דם האדם באדם דמו ישפך, which can be explained to mean "One who spills the blood of a person within a person (or a fetus) shall have their blood spilled". It's a bad example, though.

"והמית איש או אשה השור יסקל וגם בעליו יומת" would be a better example.


Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4948 on: May 20, 2021, 05:57:39 PM »
According to the Rambam, non-Jews only require one witness and do not require warning.
It's a Gemara, I don't think anybody disputes it (other than @aygart  :P)

Quote
אשכח ר' יעקב בר אחא דהוה כתיב בספר אגדתא דבי רבבן נח נהרג בדיין א' ובעד אחד שלא בהתראה מפי איש ולא מפי אשה ואפילו קרוב משום רבי ישמעאל אמרו באף על העוברין מנהני מילי אמר רב יהודה דאמר קרא (בראשית ט, ה) אך את דמכם לנפשותיכם אדרוש אפילו בדיין אחד (בראשית ט, ה) מיד כל חיה אפילו שלא בהתראה (בראשית ט, ה) אדרשנו ומיד האדם אפילו בעד אחד (בראשית ט, ה) מיד איש ולא מיד אשה אחיו אפילו קרוב
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/סנהדרין_נז_ב
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline drosenberg88429

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4949 on: May 20, 2021, 05:58:36 PM »
So if I understand correctly if they engage in the act they should be put to death. Not asking who carries out the punishment.

Capital crime, punishable by stoning. Pretty explicit law.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4950 on: May 20, 2021, 05:59:15 PM »
with the end of semicha a few hundred years later the formation of a sanhedrin (even ketana) became impossible.
That is up for debate - a majority of all rabbonim can theoretically appoint a new Sanhedrin without semicha.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline JlmBoi

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4951 on: May 20, 2021, 06:00:27 PM »
That is up for debate - a majority of all rabbonim can theoretically appoint a new Sanhedrin without semicha.
But they haven't. Because the consensus is that's its not the time or place.
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4952 on: May 20, 2021, 06:15:51 PM »
That is up for debate - a majority of all rabbonim can theoretically appoint a new Sanhedrin without semicha.
You're nitpicking at things that don't really undermine the point. And even then, AFAIK the various 'modern' attempts were not to create a new sanhedrin without semicha - they attempted to restart semicha in order to then form a new sanhedrin. Even had this been accepted, it would still leave the obstacle of needing the lishkas hagazis.

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4953 on: May 20, 2021, 06:16:54 PM »
Again, you're nitpicking at things that don't really undermine the point. And even then, AFAIK they did not attempt to create a new sanhedrin without semicha - they attempted to restart semicha in order to then form a new sanhedrin. Even had this been accepted, it would still leave the obstacle of needing the lishkas hagazis.
I didn't intend to argue with you, just to point out something that I find interesting.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4954 on: May 20, 2021, 06:19:15 PM »
I didn't intend to argue with you, just to point out something that I find interesting.
I hear. I read up on all this stuff when Rav Adin Steinsaltz was niftar (he was selected as nasi of the 2004 attempt at reestablishing semicha/sanhedrin).

Offline PlatinumGuy

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4955 on: May 20, 2021, 06:21:46 PM »
I hear. I read up on all this stuff when Rav Adin Steinsaltz was niftar (he was selected as nasi of the 2004 attempt at reestablishing semicha/sanhedrin).
It's a fascinating subject. From what I remember, part of the problem is that even with Moshiach we won't have Semicha and have two reestablish it somehow.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline EliJelly

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4956 on: May 20, 2021, 07:16:59 PM »
To give you some perspective, there are many transgressions in the Torah punishable by human courts with death (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Judaism#In_the_Pentateuch). However, the conditions for actually carrying out that punishment are extensive. As a result, the Mishna says, "A Sanhedrin (specific type of Jewish court) that puts a man to death once in seven years is called a murderous one. Rabbi Eliezer ben Azariah said, 'Or even once in 70 years.' Rabbi Tarfon and Rabbi Akiba said, 'If we had been in the Sanhedrin, no death sentence would ever have been passed." And on top of that, the Gemara says, "forty years before the destruction of the [Second] Temple (around 2000 years ago), capital punishment ceased in Israel."
That goes to show the level of prudence and caution the Torah and chazal exercised in regards to actually executing capital punishment.

When @CountValentine asked;
What is the Torah's position on homosexual relationships. Should those involved be put to death?

I understood it as how bad of an offense is homo relationships according to the Torah, to which I quoted the following;
As stated clearly in the Bible - Leviticus 20 - 13

וְאִ֗ישׁ אֲשֶׁ֨ר יִשְׁכַּ֤ב אֶת־זָכָר֙ מִשְׁכְּבֵ֣י אִשָּׁ֔ה תּוֹעֵבָ֥ה עָשׂ֖וּ שְׁנֵיהֶ֑ם מ֥וֹת יוּמָ֖תוּ דְּמֵיהֶ֥ם בָּֽם׃
If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death—their bloodguilt is upon them.

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4957 on: May 20, 2021, 07:37:34 PM »
It's a Gemara, I don't think anybody disputes it (other than @aygart  :P)
https://he.wikisource.org/wiki/סנהדרין_נז_ב
ידעתי ושכחתי
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4958 on: May 20, 2021, 08:07:12 PM »
When @CountValentine asked;
I understood it as how bad of an offense is homo relationships according to the Torah, to which I quoted the following;
I read his question as related/stemming from to the other discussion today about 'violence' in Judaism - where PG made mention of homosexuality being a capital offense. An examination of his post timeline today more or less confirms.

Offline CountValentine

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions
« Reply #4959 on: May 20, 2021, 08:20:03 PM »
I read his question as related/stemming from to the other discussion today about 'violence' in Judaism - where PG made mention of homosexuality being a capital offense. An examination of his post timeline today more or less confirms.
You are correct. Killing of those who engage in that activity would be another example of violence in the religion.
Now this is a perspective from the outside looking in, not inside looking out.
I fully understand this point: https://forums.dansdeals.com/index.php?topic=106368.msg2448949#msg2448949
You're so far up Trump's a** you can see Giuliani's feet.  HT Baruch