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Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 950293 times)

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1080 on: December 07, 2015, 09:58:50 AM »
If driving home from work after zeman hadlaka, can I listen to a shiur or is it better to stare at traffic, listen to music etc?
i imagine shiur is fine

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1081 on: December 07, 2015, 10:14:05 AM »
So does this make him Einstein...?   :)
And chas v'shalom if he is what his username implies...  ;D
And who can be so 100000000000000% sure about him? :P

SBS? ;)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1082 on: December 07, 2015, 02:41:37 PM »
i imagine shiur is fine


I would like to be mechadesh that if you are out of town at the time if the chiyuv, the halochos of eating and learning don't apply. IE, if you can't fulfil the chiyuv anyway, (cuz you're not home.. Cannot get home any faster anyway.)

 il get a shomer anyway until I can affirm this chiddush.

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1083 on: December 07, 2015, 03:19:41 PM »

I would like to be mechadesh that if you are out of town at the time if the chiyuv, the halochos of eating and learning don't apply. IE, if you can't fulfil the chiyuv anyway, (cuz you're not home.. Cannot get home any faster anyway.)

 il get a shomer anyway until I can affirm this chiddush.
too bold for me
that would negate the whole problem with chanuka parties

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1084 on: December 07, 2015, 03:28:23 PM »
too bold for me
that would negate the whole problem with chanuka parties
There is an assumption that chanukah parties are a problem?

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1085 on: December 07, 2015, 04:02:55 PM »

I would like to be mechadesh that if you are out of town at the time if the chiyuv, the halochos of eating and learning don't apply. IE, if you can't fulfil the chiyuv anyway, (cuz you're not home.. Cannot get home any faster anyway.)

 il get a shomer anyway until I can affirm this chiddush.


In kovetz halachos he writes that the only way to be allowed to eat is with a shomer including someone still at work.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1086 on: December 07, 2015, 04:03:35 PM »
There is an assumption that chanukah parties are a problem?
a chanuka party scheduled not in your home at 5, so lets say you didnt light beforehand bc you had no one to watch the candles, or you had to leave before plag
you miss ideal zman and you cant eat a seuda with mezonos

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1087 on: December 07, 2015, 05:59:24 PM »

I would like to be mechadesh that if you are out of town at the time if the chiyuv, the halochos of eating and learning don't apply. IE, if you can't fulfil the chiyuv anyway, (cuz you're not home.. Cannot get home any faster anyway.)

 il get a shomer anyway until I can affirm this chiddush.

Have you checked wether this fits with all the cases in suka 38 and rishonim thereon?

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1088 on: December 07, 2015, 10:54:15 PM »
a chanuka party scheduled not in your home at 5, so lets say you didnt light beforehand bc you had no one to watch the candles, or you had to leave before plag
you miss ideal zman and you cant eat a seuda with mezonos
This is what I'm saying:

From tosfos succa 46a haroeh, I learn that ner chanukah is like mezuza. AKA  chovos hador. Therefore, one that is homeless would be potur from the ikur chiyuv. (The ran by achsanai says exactly not like this)

Add in R Akiva Eigers chiddush by mezuza that if you leave your house for a short trip the chiyuv evaporates.. - Shut, oc 9.

Based on this, if you work out of town the chiyuv is only chal when you walk in the door. Ergo you can eat etc.

The wildcard over here is bircas haroeh... I could argue that this inyan is not something that would create issur achila..


See bach in siman about achsanauy where he actually referes to ner chanukah as "mitzvas mamono" - like I am saying.

Also see the rosh by achsanai, states that a "man on a boat would not light" - need a house or room.


Might have an issue with the chiyuv of cshad. But this again is only if you have some form of dwelling/room.


(I am aware that the mordechai and others are mashma not like this. They strongly say that a traveler would need to find a way to light etc etc.)
« Last Edit: December 07, 2015, 10:57:49 PM by churnbabychurn »

Offline thaber

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1089 on: December 08, 2015, 12:25:07 AM »
This is what I'm saying:

From tosfos succa 46a haroeh, I learn that ner chanukah is like mezuza. AKA  chovos hador. Therefore, one that is homeless would be potur from the ikur chiyuv. (The ran by achsanai says exactly not like this)

Add in R Akiva Eigers chiddush by mezuza that if you leave your house for a short trip the chiyuv evaporates.. - Shut, oc 9.

Based on this, if you work out of town the chiyuv is only chal when you walk in the door. Ergo you can eat etc.

The wildcard over here is bircas haroeh... I could argue that this inyan is not something that would create issur achila..


See bach in siman about achsanauy where he actually referes to ner chanukah as "mitzvas mamono" - like I am saying.

Also see the rosh by achsanai, states that a "man on a boat would not light" - need a house or room.


Might have an issue with the chiyuv of cshad. But this again is only if you have some form of dwelling/room.


(I am aware that the mordechai and others are mashma not like this. They strongly say that a traveler would need to find a way to light etc etc.)

I'm maskim to your lomdus, and that birchas haroeh is different.
However, the reason not to eat is not (only)  because you have a chiyuv that was chal. For example, even if for whatever reason you can't shake lulav now, or daven mincha, a seudah is lechoaira still assur. (Before you jump on me, I know that איו הנידון דומה לראיה because there the chiyuv is chal, just no heicha timza, and here there's no chiyuv, but in both cases I can't do it now and will be able to do it later).
 I'm not sure why, but maybe because there's still a chashash it'll totally slip your mind if you get busy with something else.
lehalacha, they bring this in the dirshu from Reb Vosner (p.110 in the miluim, #31) However in the same shtikel they bring from RNK that a woman can't eat even if she is someich on her husband "since she is in the makom hadlaka" That would seem to be a rayoh to your yesod. I don't have the quoted seforim on hand to look up though.

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1090 on: December 08, 2015, 09:07:39 AM »
This is what I'm saying:

From tosfos succa 46a haroeh, I learn that ner chanukah is like mezuza. AKA  chovos hador. Therefore, one that is homeless would be potur from the ikur chiyuv. (The ran by achsanai says exactly not like this)

Add in R Akiva Eigers chiddush by mezuza that if you leave your house for a short trip the chiyuv evaporates.. - Shut, oc 9.

Based on this, if you work out of town the chiyuv is only chal when you walk in the door. Ergo you can eat etc.

The wildcard over here is bircas haroeh... I could argue that this inyan is not something that would create issur achila..


See bach in siman about achsanauy where he actually referes to ner chanukah as "mitzvas mamono" - like I am saying.

Also see the rosh by achsanai, states that a "man on a boat would not light" - need a house or room.


Might have an issue with the chiyuv of cshad. But this again is only if you have some form of dwelling/room.


(I am aware that the mordechai and others are mashma not like this. They strongly say that a traveler would need to find a way to light etc etc.)
מאוד נהניתי מהלמדות, אך נראה לי שאין היסוד חזק די צרכו שהרי מעולם לא שמענו ולא ראינו מי שינהג כשיטת רע"א האמור וגם לא ס"ל לגמרי כשיטת התוס' וכדלקמן!!!

אני מסכים שחיוב הרואה אינו אוסר באכילה, ופשוט הוא.

החיוב משום חשד אינו שייך לכאורה לאלו המדליקים בפנים
(Maybe this line belongs on a different thread ;) )


בפוסקים יש סתירות אם פוסקים כהמרדכי אם לאו, ובאחרונים האריכו ליישבם, זה בכה וזה בכה
התירוץ הכי מרווח לדידי הוא (חי' מהר"מ באנעט, שבת, כג,א ועוד) שנקטינן שיש חיוב להדליק בביתו דוקא אבל גם כשמדליק מחוץ לביתו יש בזה קיום מצוה עכ"פ בדיעבד או שהוא כעין חצי שיעור וכיו"ב
ואם כנים הדברים הי' נראה שכבר חל החיוב ואסור באכילה
(ע"ד איסור האכילה לפני תפילת השחר שמתחיל בעלוה"ש אף שלכתחילה אסור להתפלל לפני הנץ)
 וגם  רוב שאר האחרונים, לא ס"ל שנ"ח ה"ה חובת הדר ממש כמו מזוזה, אלא שהחיוב חל על כאו"א ורק שמתנאי המצוה הוא שידליקם על פתח ביתו
וא"כ החיוב חל מיד בהתקדש ליל החג אף כשאינו בביתו

גם יש לדון אם יש להמשרד או הרכב - שלפעמים גם אוכל בהם סעודות וכו' - דין דירה. . וממקום שבאת, הרי המשרד חייב במזוזה  וגם הרכב הי' חייב לכמה פוסקים אם 'הי' בה שיעור דע"ד ושאר התנאים

« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 09:16:37 AM by eliraps »

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1091 on: December 08, 2015, 09:22:23 AM »
This is what I'm saying:

From tosfos succa 46a haroeh, I learn that ner chanukah is like mezuza. AKA  chovos hador. Therefore, one that is homeless would be potur from the ikur chiyuv. (The ran by achsanai says exactly not like this)

Add in R Akiva Eigers chiddush by mezuza that if you leave your house for a short trip the chiyuv evaporates.. - Shut, oc 9.

Based on this, if you work out of town the chiyuv is only chal when you walk in the door. Ergo you can eat etc.

The wildcard over here is bircas haroeh... I could argue that this inyan is not something that would create issur achila..


See bach in siman about achsanauy where he actually referes to ner chanukah as "mitzvas mamono" - like I am saying.

Also see the rosh by achsanai, states that a "man on a boat would not light" - need a house or room.


Might have an issue with the chiyuv of cshad. But this again is only if you have some form of dwelling/room.


(I am aware that the mordechai and others are mashma not like this. They strongly say that a traveler would need to find a way to light etc etc.)
i disagree
yes, it is a chovas habayis, as the chiyuv is ner ish uveiso, and you need a bayis.
that means if you dont have a house you are patur, not if you arent in the house.
tosfos is saying that if you dont have a house, you have no chiyuv in mezuza (not a chidush of tosfos)
there is no din of derech rechoka by chanuka. if you own a house, you cant go hide in your cousins house and claim you are patur.
why would there be a whole diyun regarding kedimus of maariv or hadlaka
just stay in shul til whenever, learn or daven, and when you come home, go daven.
we dont say that bc you are chayav once the zman arrives
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 09:30:45 AM by dealfinder85 »

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1092 on: December 08, 2015, 09:29:56 AM »

tosfos is saying that if you dont have a mezuza house, you have no chiyuv in mezuza (not a chidush of tosfos)

FTFY

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1093 on: December 08, 2015, 09:30:51 AM »

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1094 on: December 08, 2015, 09:31:06 AM »
I am new to this side of DDF. How do you guys write inyonim of learning in english???
It would take me 5 times as long to write...

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1095 on: December 08, 2015, 10:00:24 AM »
  • Tosafos does not mean that n"ch is a chovas hadar like mezuza or anything similar to that. If that would be the case then the entire diyun of achsanai would be moot and one definitely would not be able to have his wife light for him while away.
  • RA"E in the addition at the end of the tshuva seems to write that he is referring to someone who leaves for a few days and not just someone who steps outside for a few minutes.
  • I wouldn't say though that we do not go like RA"E since he himself writes in the addition a reson not to say a bracha which comes purely from hilchos brachos despite his reasoing regarding mezuza itself. That said, there are numerous achronim who argue on RA"E.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1096 on: December 08, 2015, 10:05:55 AM »
I am new to this side of DDF. How do you guys write inyonim of learning in english???
It would take me 5 times as long to write...
I'm sure many will ask you the opposite question.

Offline eliraps

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1097 on: December 08, 2015, 10:26:26 AM »
I'm sure many will ask you the opposite question.
:-[
I hope I don't get in trouble

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1098 on: December 08, 2015, 10:36:27 AM »
I am new to this side of DDF. How do you guys write inyonim of learning in english???
It would take me 5 times as long to write...
I have been teaching inyonim of halacha to people without enough background to understand concepts not presented in standard english for quite a few years. It is not difficult to do the same in writing.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1099 on: December 08, 2015, 10:55:40 AM »
  • Tosafos does not mean that n"ch is a chovas hadar like mezuza or anything similar to that. If that would be the case then the entire diyun of achsanai would be moot and one definitely would not be able to have his wife light for him while away.

Tos: "they were mesaken bircas haroeh for people who dont have a house and are not able to be mekayem the mitzva. .... Vtikshey lei mezuza."

Clearly this teritz of tos is suggesting that chanuka is a chiyuv like mezuza.
What say you?



Indeed, achsanai may be only a chiyuv mishum chshad, etc. (delo K'hRan.)