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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions  (Read 324524 times)

Offline terrificreport

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1260 on: March 04, 2016, 09:20:49 AM »
I know; I was involved in that discussion.  I understand the logic, but this is what my Rov told me, what can I say.  At any rate, I am just explaining now why a CC expense is not the same as regular operating expenses.  I agree I don't understand why a fundraiser is different.

I dont understand the logic and would say that we all have a bias (myself included) because of the CC benefit (points, cash back, minimum spend etc.).

Your contribution is not 10 but rather 9.70 as no organization or business for that matter can get out of paying the CC fee in contrast to the fundraiser.

Offline Zevi16

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1261 on: March 04, 2016, 09:30:23 AM »
I know; I was involved in that discussion.  I understand the logic, but this is what my Rov told me, what can I say.  At any rate, I am just explaining now why a CC expense is not the same as regular operating expenses.  I agree I don't understand why a fundraiser is different.
There are sometimes cases when the tzdaka pay kids to count/sort the money.

Offline incendia

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1262 on: March 04, 2016, 09:31:37 AM »
What expenses are there with check or cash ? Businesses don't wanna take a check for fear it could bounce.

counting
sending someone to the bank to deposit
people bounce checks to charities too
extra book keeping
stamps for the mailers
some process checks electronically, that also has a fee
breakage
some banks make you pay for a more expensive bank acct the more transactions you do a month

Offline terrificreport

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1263 on: March 04, 2016, 09:35:41 AM »
There are sometimes cases when the tzdaka pay kids to count/sort the money.

Thats fine and no different than the overhead the organization pays to process checks and cash.

I believe Der Deutche Jude said it best. Their expenses increased directly from your donation. And I would add that you only gave the organization 9.70 (and not 10-0.30).
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 09:43:37 AM by terrificreport »

Offline yochiek93

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1264 on: March 04, 2016, 09:43:36 AM »
Thats fine and no different than the overhead the organization pays to process checks and cash.

I believe Der Deutche Jude said it best. Their expenses increased directly from your donation.
Not to go around in circles but if the fundraiser is taking a % its the same thing

Offline Zevi16

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1265 on: March 04, 2016, 09:57:50 AM »
Thats fine and no different than the overhead the organization pays to process checks and cash.

I believe Der Deutche Jude said it best. Their expenses increased directly from your donation. And I would add that you only gave the organization 9.70 (and not 10-0.30).
I beg to differ. If you give a bag of pennies it'll cost them money to sort. Why is that different?

Offline terrificreport

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1266 on: March 04, 2016, 10:00:48 AM »
Not to go around in circles but if the fundraiser is taking a % its the same thing

It may appear to be the same but in essence vastly different.

The organization would much rather the cash/cheque (yeshivos, gas and almost anybody that can - tacks on the 3% fee) in contrast to the fundraiser, in which, organization would rather it be given to the fundraiser (creates relationship btwn donor and organization, makes it worthwhile for the fundraiser to be employed etc.).

And final difference is how the organization chooses to compensate/incentivize its employees or even allocate their expenses will not have any bearing on the contribution as opposed to a charge that is specific to your contribution and cannot

I agree that if you can only pay on CC - and cannot pay cash/cheque for whatever reason - since organization would gladly take a guaranteed donation even if it is on CC and eat the 3%, therefore you would be able to claim the FULL contribution for maaser.

End of the day, if you have a choice of contributing cash/cheque/cc and contribute CC, I cannot see how you would receive credit/maaser for the full contribution.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 10:14:46 AM by terrificreport »

Offline terrificreport

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1267 on: March 04, 2016, 10:02:33 AM »
I beg to differ. If you give a bag of pennies it'll cost them money to sort. Why is that different?

Never beg! :)

Good question.

Because pennies are money as opposed to CC.

Online skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1268 on: March 04, 2016, 10:13:53 AM »
Never beg! :)

Good question.

Because pennies are money as opposed to CC.
A brief summary of my response to just about everything you've said:
חילוק שאינו מתחלק

Did someone here actually say their Rov told them they can't count the processing fee percentage as maaser? I find that hard to believe.

ETA: I can totally hear someone saying that l'maaseh you should try not to use cc for tzedaka, as the organization will likely net more from a check - but that's not the same as saying that you can't count the full amount if you do donate by cc.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1269 on: March 04, 2016, 10:15:51 AM »


Because pennies are money as opposed to CC.
What's that supposed to mean?


Offline Der Deutsche Jude

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1270 on: March 04, 2016, 10:34:28 AM »
Did someone here actually say their Rov told them they can't count the processing fee percentage as maaser? I find that hard to believe.
I said that, but you don't have to beleive it.  In fact you shouldn't, and should ask your own Rov what to do.

Online skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1271 on: March 04, 2016, 10:42:03 AM »
I said that, but you don't have to beleive it.  In fact you shouldn't, and should ask your own Rov what to do.
Can you ask him for a source?

I have a separate, practical question about this shitah. How do you know how much of your donation to count? There is no set amount that all organizations pay. It depends on their processor. So do you just pick the average number? The highest number?

ETA: Also, I didn't mean to intimate that you were making it up. My intention was that I can't understand how a Rov versed in the subject, and in the practical workings of these things, would pasken that way.

Offline yochiek93

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1272 on: March 04, 2016, 10:48:00 AM »
Can you ask him for a source?

I have a separate, practical question about this shitah. How do you know how much of your donation to count? There is no set amount that all organizations pay. It depends on their processor. So do you just pick the average number? The highest number?

ETA: Also, I didn't mean to intimate that you were making it up. My intention was that I can't understand how a Rov versed in the subject, and in the practical workings of these things, would pasken that way.
+1

Offline Der Deutsche Jude

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1273 on: March 04, 2016, 10:52:04 AM »
Can you ask him for a source?

I have a separate, practical question about this shitah. How do you know how much of your donation to count? There is no set amount that all organizations pay. It depends on their processor. So do you just pick the average number? The highest number?

ETA: Also, I didn't mean to intimate that you were making it up. My intention was that I can't understand how a Rov versed in the subject, and in the practical workings of these things, would pasken that way.
Everything you mention has been on my to-do list for a while.  Hopefully soon.   :)

Offline churnbabychurn

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1274 on: March 04, 2016, 11:23:30 AM »
Um, didn't wash, made hamotzie and about to insert bread, but remember that didn't wash!?