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Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions  (Read 317417 times)

Offline Centro

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1305 on: March 10, 2016, 12:37:02 AM »
If I'm "borrowing" something from the Walmart gemach, does it still need to be toiveled?
Ask the same ruv whom you asked about using the gemach...

Offline gubevo18

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1306 on: March 12, 2016, 08:34:22 PM »
Ask the same ruv whom you asked about using the gemach...
+1 very well said

Offline Freddie

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1307 on: March 12, 2016, 08:38:48 PM »
Ask the same ruv whom you asked about using the gemach...
+1
The question is disturbing.

Offline David Smith

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1308 on: March 12, 2016, 10:00:38 PM »
I don't think your right. Read up thread.
Lets say a fundraiser comes to your door and collects for an institution. He is taking a nice percentage. Maybe you should tell him thank you for telling me about the institution I will pay them myself as I want 100% to go to the tzdaka. Furthermore, if you don't do that and actually give it to him,  do you have to call up to find out what percentage he gets and deduct that from what you supposedly gave to maaser?
There is an integral difference. In your example, you are giving the organization $100, of which they are giving 20% to the collector (I just made up random numbers). By using a credit card, you are paying the credit card company $100, for which they are giving $97 to the organization. Just because you are being charged more by the credit card company than the actual donation amount, doesn't mean that you can write off your credit card bill as ma'aser.
If you wouldn't pay the full amount and would have to pay interest on the amount you donated, would you deduct that interest from maaser, being as that's what the donation cost you? Of course not, as at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with what tzedaka received.
 Credit card processing fees essentially mean that you are being charged 3% more than is being paid.
A more accurate example would be if you had a messenger deliver your donation to the organization, and deducting the delivery charge you paid him from maaser. If you send a check in the mail, do you write off the cost of the stamp? I think that may be a better parallel to credit card donations, and the logic I would see in a Rav paskening that.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 10:04:59 PM by David Smith »
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1309 on: March 12, 2016, 10:12:17 PM »
Ask the same ruv whom you asked about using the gemach...
+100
100% assur

Offline yitrap

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1310 on: March 12, 2016, 10:14:43 PM »

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1311 on: March 12, 2016, 10:16:50 PM »
Source?
To buy something to use with 100% intention to return afterwards? Why would that be mutar? I don't recall the source, nor am I your LOR, so do as you please. Just don't look like a Jew when you do

Offline yitrap

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1312 on: March 12, 2016, 10:18:34 PM »

To buy something to use with 100% intention to return afterwards? Why would that be mutar? I don't recall the source, nor am I your LOR, so do as you please. Just don't look like a Jew when you do
Most store owners will still tell you to buy it. I'm not saying to do it I'm asking what the reason is to asser it.

Offline dealfinder85

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1313 on: March 12, 2016, 10:19:02 PM »
Most store owners will still tell you to buy it. I'm not saying to do it I'm asking what the reason is to asser it.
I can try to get the source within a day or 2
Eta: I'm not a lubav, but a quick Google search yielded this http://m.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2807335/jewish/Can-I-Buy-Something-if-I-Plan-to-Return-It.htmshttp://m.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2807335/jewish/Can-I-Buy-Something-if-I-Plan-to-Return-It.htm
And another
http://dinonline.org/2011/08/20/buying-with-intention-of-returning/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 10:23:53 PM by dealfinder85 »

Offline yitrap

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1314 on: March 12, 2016, 10:31:37 PM »
First link didn't work, second link doesn't source anything.

Offline Zevi16

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1315 on: March 13, 2016, 01:55:38 AM »
There is an integral difference. In your example, you are giving the organization $100, of which they are giving 20% to the collector (I just made up random numbers). By using a credit card, you are paying the credit card company $100, for which they are giving $97 to the organization. Just because you are being charged more by the credit card company than the actual donation amount, doesn't mean that you can write off your credit card bill as ma'aser.
If you wouldn't pay the full amount and would have to pay interest on the amount you donated, would you deduct that interest from maaser, being as that's what the donation cost you? Of course not, as at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with what tzedaka received.
 Credit card processing fees essentially mean that you are being charged 3% more than is being paid.
A more accurate example would be if you had a messenger deliver your donation to the organization, and deducting the delivery charge you paid him from maaser. If you send a check in the mail, do you write off the cost of the stamp? I think that may be a better parallel to credit card donations, and the logic I would see in a Rav paskening that.
A collector going around for an organization takes his cut before he gives the rest to the organization. So it works out to be the same.
There are many zdakos that encourage people to go around for them on purim and offer a big cut. The people going around take that money right away.
So you may say it is their choice to use them but it is also their choice to accept credit cards.
I find this discussion is going round in circles.

Offline dealfinder85

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Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1317 on: March 13, 2016, 12:24:35 PM »
There is an integral difference. In your example, you are giving the organization $100, of which they are giving 20% to the collector (I just made up random numbers). By using a credit card, you are paying the credit card company $100, for which they are giving $97 to the organization. Just because you are being charged more by the credit card company than the actual donation amount, doesn't mean that you can write off your credit card bill as ma'aser.
If you wouldn't pay the full amount and would have to pay interest on the amount you donated, would you deduct that interest from maaser, being as that's what the donation cost you? Of course not, as at the end of the day, that has nothing to do with what tzedaka received.
 Credit card processing fees essentially mean that you are being charged 3% more than is being paid.
A more accurate example would be if you had a messenger deliver your donation to the organization, and deducting the delivery charge you paid him from maaser. If you send a check in the mail, do you write off the cost of the stamp? I think that may be a better parallel to credit card donations, and the logic I would see in a Rav paskening that.
חילוק שאינו מתחלק
I'm glad you gave the messenger example, because it's a perfect example against your reasoning. It's not like you hiring the messenger, it's like the tzedaka hiring the messenger. You say 3%, but the actual % depends on how they decide to accept CC. There are many ways to do so, and many vendors offering different prices. The tzedaka chooses that, not you. That means it's exactly like the collector, and exactly like a messenger hired by the tzedaka.

Offline David Smith

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1318 on: March 13, 2016, 12:38:00 PM »
I'm glad you gave the messenger example, because it's a perfect example against your reasoning. It's not like you hiring the messenger, it's like the tzedaka hiring the messenger. You say 3%, but the actual % depends on how they decide to accept CC. There are many ways to do so, and many vendors offering different prices. The tzedaka chooses that, not you. That means it's exactly like the collector, and exactly like a messenger hired by the tzedaka.
It's the tzedaka hiring the messenger? Are you writing out a check to tomchei shabbos or amex?
Who do you think you are fooling? You think you are going to pull a quick one on your Creator? Good luck with that.
JTZ

Offline thaber

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #1319 on: March 13, 2016, 06:01:51 PM »
If I'm "borrowing" something from the Walmart gemach, does it still need to be toiveled?
you might want to ask a שומר תו"מ to toivel it for you :P