Topic Wiki

Some Lomdishe Acronyms For This Thread (Feel free to update the wiki as needed.)

AYLR – Ask Your Local Rabbi
KHLH – כל המקיל לא הפסיד
IMHnrO - In My Humble non-rabbinic Opinion
MB – Mishna Berura
MM - Mar'eh Makom
MMR – Machlokes Mechaber & Rema
NM - Nafka Minah
S – Siman
SF – Se’if
SHUA – Shulchan Aruch
SK – Se’if Katan
WTM – What’s The Mekor (?)
YMMV – Your Minhag May Vary


Author Topic: All Halocha Shailos and Tiffeh Questions  (Read 951055 times)

Offline koplonko

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4440 on: April 07, 2020, 08:50:09 AM »
never heard that minhag. the Minhag is only on surfaces that we Kahser bcuz of the Minhag, like a table or counter, where Kashering is a Minhag, then you NEED to cover.
A Becher that you kasher, you also cover? No, because Kashring does the job.
Some hold that irui with even meluban is not equal to hagala. The sink may require hagala because hot solid chometz (stays kli rishon according to many) goes in it.
Since we usually kasher kasher sink with irui, we also cover it because it may not be sufficient.

3rd paragraph - https://chabadlibrary.org/books/adhaz/sh/sh3/1/451/27.htm

And here https://chabadlibrary.org/books/adhaz/sh/sh3/1/451/58.htm

Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4441 on: April 07, 2020, 10:12:27 AM »
Everyone keeps saying 'we' as if there's one shitah in klal yisroel when it comes to kashering for Pesach. Many, many people kasher granite countertops and stainless steel sinks without covering. Others (either because of chumrah or because they find it simpler and don't mind it) and just cover countertops and/or use an insert, while still others are machmir to kasher and cover. Every person should be consulting with their posek. Many poskim will point you to one guide/sefer or another and say I hold of this, follow its instructions. If you don't have a posek, there's certainly what to rely on by following the guides from the kashrus orgs, though they certainly tend to be more meikal than you might hear from your posek.

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4442 on: April 07, 2020, 10:17:00 AM »
What's the deal with covering sinks and counters that can be kashered and are kashered? Chumrah D'Pesach? Does one have to cover it?
Repost. maybe the Dayanim can chime in.
Can't answer the question on that coating, but since the minhag is to cover chametz keilim even after kashering, so probably you wouldn't avoid to put the sink insert regardless.
****Some**** have such a minhag due to
Some hold that irui with even meluban is not equal to hagala. The sink may require hagala because hot solid chometz (stays kli rishon according to many) goes in it.
Since we usually kasher kasher sink with irui, we also cover it because it may not be sufficient.

3rd paragraph - https://chabadlibrary.org/books/adhaz/sh/sh3/1/451/27.htm

And here https://chabadlibrary.org/books/adhaz/sh/sh3/1/451/58.htm
But even that is a big chumro since even a davar gush kli rishon will only be boleya a klipa and irui works for a klipa.
Im not sure why thy write so, AYLOR about granite, AFAIK it can't be Kashered (כלי אבן). And also make sure it's granite, if it's not slabs it might be something else.
כלי אבן can be kashered.

Granite countertops can potentially have the same chumro of davar gush. You would also need to check to ensure that there are no nicks etc. It is not so easy to do the irui since the entire thing needs to come under the flow.
it's a longstanding minhag based on what I posted above.
-1 Some are "machmir lichatchila" on this.
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Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4443 on: April 07, 2020, 10:18:07 AM »
Everyone keeps saying 'we' as if there's one shitah in klal yisroel when it comes to kashering for Pesach. Many, many people kasher granite countertops and stainless steel sinks without covering. Others (either because of chumrah or because they find it simpler and don't mind it) and just cover countertops and/or use an insert, while still others are machmir to kasher and cover. Every person should be consulting with their posek. Many poskim will point you to one guide/sefer or another and say I hold of this, follow its instructions. If you don't have a posek, there's certainly what to rely on by following the guides from the kashrus orgs, though they certainly tend to be more meikal than you might hear from your posek.
+10000000000000000000000

The guide put out by BMG has very interesting wording regarding sinks VD"L
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Offline skyguy918

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4444 on: April 07, 2020, 10:22:54 AM »
+10000000000000000000000

The guide put out by BMG has very interesting wording regarding sinks VD"L
I think I hashed this out in another thread (aside from with my LOR a few years ago), but I do iruy with a kettle/urn while it's still on the heat source - ie an electric kettle that I pour from while it's still attached to the base and with the boil button held down, and same with an urn that's plugged in and held on reboil. What would that be classified as, and how does it compare to even meluban halachically?

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4445 on: April 07, 2020, 10:31:14 AM »
I think I hashed this out in another thread (aside from with my LOR a few years ago), but I do iruy with a kettle/urn while it's still on the heat source - ie an electric kettle that I pour from while it's still attached to the base and with the boil button held down, and same with an urn that's plugged in and held on reboil. What would that be classified as, and how does it compare to even meluban halachically?

 :D
That is better than even meluban and according to many can be equivalent to a kli rishon depending on the reasoning for iruy to be below kli rishon. I do that too with some additional personal "kuntzim".
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Offline ah giten

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4446 on: April 07, 2020, 11:53:10 AM »
****Some**** have such a minhag due to But even that is a big chumro since even a davar gush kli rishon will only be boleya a klipa and irui works for a klipa.כלי אבן can be kashered.

Granite countertops can potentially have the same chumro of davar gush. You would also need to check to ensure that there are no nicks etc. It is not so easy to do the irui since the entire thing needs to come under the flow.-1 Some are "machmir lichatchila" on this.
so @aygart regarding my question, abt the sink, what if the its coated with some unknown coating, and for those that do allow Kahering SS sink. Would this sink still be considered SS, or will have the shaala of כלי חרס.

Offline shwarmabob

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4447 on: April 07, 2020, 12:05:28 PM »
this year if it causes additional difficulties may not be the year to go for a yesh omrim chumra
I heard this from two different Poskim

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4448 on: April 07, 2020, 12:14:36 PM »
so @aygart regarding my question, abt the sink, what if the its coated with some unknown coating, and for those that do allow Kahering SS sink. Would this sink still be considered SS, or will have the shaala of כלי חרס.
I once looked into this but don't remember. I do remember coming out that it was not an issue.
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Offline ah giten

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4449 on: April 07, 2020, 12:15:32 PM »
I once looked into this but don't remember. I do remember coming out that it was not an issue.
wow, ok thanks much.

Offline username

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4450 on: April 07, 2020, 12:16:58 PM »
so @aygart regarding my question, abt the sink, what if the its coated with some unknown coating, and for those that do allow Kahering SS sink. Would this sink still be considered SS, or will have the shaala of כלי חרס.
Are you referring to a coating inside the sink, or a coating up the underside of the sink?
^^^

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4451 on: April 07, 2020, 12:27:08 PM »
wow, ok thanks much.
I recommend asking further and not relying on this since my memory about it is sketchy. I will meanwhile try to confirm.
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Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4452 on: April 07, 2020, 12:27:32 PM »
Are you referring to a coating inside the sink, or a coating up the underside of the sink?
I am understanding that he means underside.
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Online EliJelly

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4453 on: April 07, 2020, 12:28:03 PM »
****Some**** have such a minhag1
Some are "machmir lichatchila" on this.
That's all right, but in that situation he should ask his father whether they followed this chumra, or a posek from his circle, rather than relying on anonymous bloggers to hear what's the עיקר הדין.

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4454 on: April 07, 2020, 12:30:02 PM »
That's all right, but in that situation he should ask his father whether they followed this chumra, or a posek from his circle, rather than relying on anonymous bloggers to hear what's the עיקר הדין.
Not everyone here is as anonymous as they look.
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Online EliJelly

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4455 on: April 07, 2020, 12:54:05 PM »
Not everyone here is as anonymous as they look.
+1, you can tell pretty much what's their background, my answer was pretty much based on that guess. :)

Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4456 on: April 07, 2020, 12:59:25 PM »
+1, you can tell pretty much what's their background, my answer was pretty much based on that guess. :)
Much less anonymous than that. I would guess that everyone who knows me on the outside would know that aygart is me.
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Offline Eliyohu

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4457 on: April 07, 2020, 01:34:36 PM »
:D
That is better than even meluban and according to many can be equivalent to a kli rishon depending on the reasoning for iruy to be below kli rishon. I do that too with some additional personal "kuntzim".
Can you elaborate on your "kuntzim"..?


Offline aygart

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4458 on: April 07, 2020, 01:39:22 PM »
Can you elaborate on your "kuntzim"..?


They are not for public consumption and not midina.
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Offline moko

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Re: All Halocha Shailos and teiffa Questions
« Reply #4459 on: April 08, 2020, 06:45:09 AM »
The coating is a a chemical bath as part of the stainless steel processing. Its what makes the metal scratch resistant. I've never heard any rabanim say it loses its kashering status from this and I've discussed it with prominent poskim. Some newer types have an additional poly based coating. Presumably that would be the same as any sealed stone countertop.
Regarding irui kashering from a kli rishon while it's still al ha'aish, it's brought down from R Shlomo Zalman in halichos Shlomo that it's as good as even meluban.
I used a steamer that sprays boiling water as well to to kasher at thege homes of several prominent rabanim they praised it highly since it has the ability to hit every spot so easily including the under side of the sink rim and the underside of the faucet. They all said that it was kashered lechatchila and no need to cover (though I know one covers anyway ) they even said it would be better than kashering with a torch (that's how I had previously kashered by them) since most are just torching to yad soledes which isn't as pashut (though in my experience at yad soledes the sink insulation starts smoking which seems to indicate that yad soledes meiver hasheini and Kash nisraf are one and the same like the mordechai writes)
Last thing, all the morei horo'ah I consulted with thisnyear were very insistent that WE ARE ADVISING  people they can kasher plastic and synthetic materials this year.
Maybe @aygart  can chime in on that last piece...