Author Topic: בר הי הי  (Read 4062 times)

Offline Dawie

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2020, 11:39:03 AM »
Here is another one that stems from am haratzus.

Amos 8,11

הִנֵּ֣ה | יָמִ֣ים בָּאִ֗ים נְאֻם֙ אֲדֹנָ֣י יֱהֹוִ֔ה וְהִשְׁלַחְתִּ֥י רָעָ֖ב בָּאָ֑רֶץ לֹֽא־רָעָ֚ב לַלֶּ֙חֶם֙ וְלֹֽא־צָמָ֣א לַמַּ֔יִם כִּ֣י אִם־לִשְׁמֹ֔עַ אֵ֖ת דִּבְרֵ֥י יְהֹוָֽה:

At first blush it seems to be a good thing. Days are coming when people will hunger for the word of Hashem.

But if you take a minute to look at the commentators, they state unanimously that this is a sad prophecy. Days are coming prophecy with go lost from the Jewish nation. If you read the following few verses, this is clearly the case.

It is akin to making a song on the words אֵיכָ֣ה | יָֽשְׁבָ֣ה בָדָ֗ד
or עַל-אֵלֶּה אֲנִי בוֹכִיָּה הֲתִחְיֶינָה הָעֲצָמוֹת הָאֵלֶּה

Offline Shkop

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2020, 11:50:53 AM »
If you are referring to the well known slow tune, there are many songs like that with sad lyrics.

I'm actually willing to bet that most songwriters do know very well what their lyrics mean.

It's many of the people that are going around singing the tunes that don't pay attention until someone asks them if they know what they're singing.
The tune is not particularly slow. It is also not a particularly sad tune. There may actually be a few tunes put to these words.

However, even if it was a sad tune, it's strange to choose this particular verse in Amos about losing prophecy over any other more well known passuk, such as one that discusses the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash. I'm pretty sure there is a healthy dose of am haaratzus at work here.
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Offline Shkop

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2020, 11:54:04 AM »
I do believe you can take a possuk that in context is about one thing, but give it a different meaning in another context. This is done all the time in pirushim and drashos.
In a peiush etc. the intent is clear.

In songs it is not because there is no other context.
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Offline avromie7

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2020, 11:59:14 AM »
The tune is not particularly slow. It is also not a particularly sad tune. There may actually be a few tunes put to these words.

However, even if it was a sad tune, it's strange to choose this particular verse in Amos about losing prophecy over any other more well known passuk, such as one that discusses the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash. I'm pretty sure there is a healthy dose of am haaratzus at work here.
This is what comes to mind, are you referring to a different song? https://youtu.be/XiR6gH9aaCg?t=153
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yitz1000

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2020, 12:26:04 PM »
This is what comes to mind, are you referring to a different song? https://youtu.be/XiR6gH9aaCg?t=153
Yes. It seems that there are many...

Online skyguy918

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2020, 12:35:12 PM »
Yes. It seems that there are many...

Offline Shkop

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2020, 12:58:14 PM »
This is what comes to mind, are you referring to a different song? https://youtu.be/XiR6gH9aaCg?t=153

I was thinking about one from, I believe, Dedi.

But it just proves my point. Why are there so many tunes specifically to this verse that isn't even well known?

This passuk seems to have become well known due to the songs, which I believe is a result of singers thinking it means something entirely different than it really does. Sad
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Online Yehuda57

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2020, 01:00:59 PM »
One of my favorite examples of this genre:

Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline yitz1000

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2020, 01:01:46 PM »
I was thinking about one from, I believe, Dedi.

But it just proves my point. Why are there so many tunes specifically to this verse that isn't even well known?

This passuk seems to have become well known due to the songs, which I believe is a result of singers thinking it means something entirely different than it really does. Sad
Agree but I still doubt it's ignorance. It's priorities. If it will make a catchy tune it's a home run, and if it's words that people have already become familiar with, they'll pick it up faster.

Online Yehuda57

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2020, 01:13:02 PM »
I was thinking about one from, I believe, Dedi.

But it just proves my point. Why are there so many tunes specifically to this verse that isn't even well known?

This passuk seems to have become well known due to the songs, which I believe is a result of singers thinking it means something entirely different than it really does. Sad
This one?


Meh, I don't think this is making your point so strongly. Remember, uptempo doesn't always mean happy or fun. Think "thousands shouting no, let my people go," or "Yerushlayim is not for sale, voices crying, thundering throughout our city."
Quote from: ExGingi
Yehuda57 needs to spew a certain amount of sarcasm in order to survive through the day.

Offline avromie7

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2020, 01:17:49 PM »
I was thinking about one from, I believe, Dedi.

But it just proves my point. Why are there so many tunes specifically to this verse that isn't even well known?

This passuk seems to have become well known due to the songs, which I believe is a result of singers thinking it means something entirely different than it really does. Sad
I think the one I posted (Yehuda Green) is originally from Carlabach, I wonder if once he made a song out of it others took the idea.
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline chevron

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2020, 02:16:38 PM »
Zachreini Na is a classic example of this. The writer knew exactly what he was doing, the bochurim jumping wildly to a classic rock song, not as much.

Saying dov shurin knows what he's doing is a stretch

Offline Definitions

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2020, 02:31:26 PM »
What do you guys expect from non prophet institutions?
Jack of all trades, master of none.

Offline Shkop

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2020, 03:39:21 PM »
How about איש את רעהו יעזורו ולאחיו יאמר חזק, which according to the context and simple meaning of the possuk and most meforshim is referring to people strategizing to build an avoda Zara?!
Probably the best example of this bizarre phenomenon. What is the seichel of putting a fast boisterous tune to the words of a verse that bemoans the fact that people encourage each other to build and serve idols?

Not much seichel at all.
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Online zh cohen

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Re: בר הי הי
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2020, 07:10:26 PM »
In a peiush etc. the intent is clear.

In songs it is not because there is no other context.

1- the tune does (or should) provide context.

2 - With regards to some of the examples in this thread the psukim became know with the positive interpretation first and then the songs were made.