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« Last edited by Joel on July 19, 2021, 01:49:19 AM »

Author Topic: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread  (Read 287105 times)

Offline yochiek93

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1920 on: April 14, 2020, 09:38:44 AM »
Many associated with HCY. They are seeing an unprecedented spike in people dying from pulmonary embolisms. My daughter spoke with the Chief of Nephrology at Columbia yesterday. He said he is seeing d dimer (blood coagulation test) results that are so high they cannot be measured by current testing methods. This is causing the heart attacks etc.

I specifically know of one case of a man I knew who had many medical issues that he was living with. He was in shul on Purim. He had a heart attack at the seder and lived 24 hours after in the hospital. However, since he had tested positive he is being counted as a COVID-19 statistic per his Death Certificate.
there are reports that COVID-19 causes blood clots.

Offline hvaces42

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1921 on: April 14, 2020, 09:41:55 AM »
there are reports that COVID-19 causes blood clots.
Both the virus and the supposed cure.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1922 on: April 14, 2020, 09:42:57 AM »
Nyc is not counting many who are dying at home as they were never tested.

The number of cardiac arrest deaths at homes in NYC has gone up 400%.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/massive-spike-in-nyc-cardiac-arrest-deaths-seen-as-sign-of-covid-19-undercounting/2368678/%3famp

First, let's all agree that DeBlasio is an idiot. Now that that's out of the way...

The only fact in that article is that FDNY is reporting a 400% increase in heart attack home deaths. Everything else is speculation. Allow me to posit my speculations on the subject.

A) FDNY response time is lagging due to the virus, causing patients who would normally be treated, transported, and become the hospitals problem, to now be DOA.

B) The stay-at-home order is causing an uptick in cardiac occurrences. Less exercise, change in diet, less access to people who would spot the cardiac issue early, added stress- all factors unaccounted for in these numbers.

C) The story is only half-baked. It's reporting FDNY numbers, with no follow up on autopsies. How many of those cases are being reclassified after a postmortem coronavirus test?

All that said, my conclusion is, and always has been, that the numbers are inaccurate. With tests spitting out so many false-negatives, there have to be thousands of deaths being mis-attributed to other causes. At this point the question is, just how off are our numbers? I don't think we'll ever know the answer.
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Offline hvaces42

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1923 on: April 14, 2020, 09:51:39 AM »
First, let's all agree that DeBlasio is an idiot. Now that that's out of the way...

The only fact in that article is that FDNY is reporting a 400% increase in heart attack home deaths. Everything else is speculation. Allow me to posit my speculations on the subject.

A) FDNY response time is lagging due to the virus, causing patients who would normally be treated, transported, and become the hospitals problem, to now be DOA.

B) The stay-at-home order is causing an uptick in cardiac occurrences. Less exercise, change in diet, less access to people who would spot the cardiac issue early, added stress- all factors unaccounted for in these numbers.

C) The story is only half-baked. It's reporting FDNY numbers, with no follow up on autopsies. How many of those cases are being reclassified after a postmortem coronavirus test?

All that said, my conclusion is, and always has been, that the numbers are inaccurate. With tests spitting out so many false-negatives, there have to be thousands of deaths being mis-attributed to other causes. At this point the question is, just how off are our numbers? I don't think we'll ever know the answer.
One additional factor that I believe is missing...A doctor I spoke with early in March as this was coming out who runs a network of 20 clinics said that he had patients as early as January on vents who were just dying without adequate explanation. This has been going on longer than we know. The body count is way higher if that was the case.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1924 on: April 14, 2020, 09:52:47 AM »
Dr. Deborah Birx, WH Press Briefing, April 7, 2020
Ouch as I was going to use her as my source to dispute your claim.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1925 on: April 14, 2020, 09:53:04 AM »
You forgot that people are also more reluctant to call for help as they are afraid to go to the hospital
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Offline Ergel

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1926 on: April 14, 2020, 09:53:57 AM »
Ouch as I was going to use her as my source to dispute your claim.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html
There is no uniformity, it differs per county
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1927 on: April 14, 2020, 09:58:58 AM »
One additional factor that I believe is missing...A doctor I spoke with early in March as this was coming out who runs a network of 20 clinics said that he had patients as early as January on vents who were just dying without adequate explanation. This has been going on longer than we know. The body count is way higher if that was the case.

Absolutely a factor in the overall death rate, but shouldn't effect FDNY's cardiac numbers. The overall unknowns about this far outweigh the knowns at this point.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1928 on: April 14, 2020, 10:01:08 AM »
You forgot that people are also more reluctant to call for help as they are afraid to go to the hospital

Definitely a factor. I'm not sure cardiac numbers are hugely affected by this, but I'm sure it plays a part.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1929 on: April 14, 2020, 10:02:11 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html
There is no uniformity, it differs per county

Just glanced at the article, but it seems to be pointing to deaths earlier in the year, which is the same point made by @hvaces42 .
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1930 on: April 14, 2020, 10:07:04 AM »
Ouch as I was going to use her as my source to dispute your claim.

You probably could. I don't generally trust anything to come out of those briefings. Lots of double-speak and political cover. I used her in this instance because I haven't heard disputing claims.
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Offline yochiek93

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1931 on: April 14, 2020, 10:12:32 AM »
First, let's all agree that DeBlasio is an idiot. Now that that's out of the way...

The only fact in that article is that FDNY is reporting a 400% increase in heart attack home deaths. Everything else is speculation. Allow me to posit my speculations on the subject.

A) FDNY response time is lagging due to the virus, causing patients who would normally be treated, transported, and become the hospitals problem, to now be DOA.

B) The stay-at-home order is causing an uptick in cardiac occurrences. Less exercise, change in diet, less access to people who would spot the cardiac issue early, added stress- all factors unaccounted for in these numbers.

C) The story is only half-baked. It's reporting FDNY numbers, with no follow up on autopsies. How many of those cases are being reclassified after a postmortem coronavirus test?

All that said, my conclusion is, and always has been, that the numbers are inaccurate. With tests spitting out so many false-negatives, there have to be thousands of deaths being mis-attributed to other causes. At this point the question is, just how off are our numbers? I don't think we'll ever know the answer.
just a small correction cardiac arrest is not a heart attack heart attack is a miocardial infarction, cardiac arrest is when the heart stops can be caused from a multitude of reasons.
You forgot that people are also more reluctant to call for help as they are afraid to go to the hospital
you be surprised how often people call which caused our stay at home protocol to come in effect.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1932 on: April 14, 2020, 10:14:54 AM »
You probably could. I don't generally trust anything to come out of those briefings. Lots of double-speak and political cover. I used her in this instance because I haven't heard disputing claims.
It was an answer to a question that number of deaths were being exaggerated. IIRC she said just because you are positive for covid does not mean it will be counted as a covid death.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1933 on: April 14, 2020, 10:16:26 AM »
just a small correction cardiac arrest is not a heart attack heart attack is a miocardial infarction, cardiac arrest is when the heart stops can be caused from a multitude of reasons.

Thanks for the correction. I've got no medical background, so all I've got is speculation. Does everything else add up, in your experience?
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1934 on: April 14, 2020, 10:18:20 AM »
It was an answer to a question that number of deaths were being exaggerated. IIRC she said just because you are positive for covid does not mean it will be counted as a covid death.
Lots of double-speak
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1935 on: April 14, 2020, 10:19:56 AM »

Not a fair criticism of the two doctors.
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1936 on: April 14, 2020, 10:27:17 AM »
Thanks for the correction. I've got no medical background, so all I've got is speculation. Does everything else add up, in your experience?
it's all speculation but it's very possible

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1937 on: April 14, 2020, 10:28:03 AM »
Not a fair criticism of the two doctors.

ETA: not deleting this, because I said what I said. But I cannot find the supporting source, so I'm retracting this.

Fauci has said in interviews that what you hear him say in a WH press briefing is somewhere between the truth and what needs to be said to keep the administration happy.

It's not a criticism, just an acknowledgement of their reality. I don't envy them.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 11:48:09 AM by Lurker »
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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1938 on: April 14, 2020, 10:30:25 AM »
Fauci has said in interviews that what you hear him say in a WH press briefing is somewhere between the truth and what needs to be said to keep the administration happy.
Source? Hard to believe that Trump would abide that.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1939 on: April 14, 2020, 10:32:36 AM »
Fauci has said in interviews that what you hear him say in a WH press briefing is somewhere between the truth and what needs to be said to keep the administration happy.

It's not a criticism, just an acknowledgement of their reality. I don't envy them.
Source? Hard to believe that Trump would abide that.
Going to need a source.
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