COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread

[Lurker]

Think you misread the article. There were no students with them. Teachers spread it to each other.

I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't say they caught it from children. I was disputing the notion that teachers are safe in their classrooms.

[yaakov35]

I think you misread what I wrote. I didn't say they caught it from children. I was disputing the notion that teachers are safe in their classrooms.

Well if they bring it in themselves then what can anyone do about that. That has nothing to do with kids.

[Lurker]

Well if they bring it in themselves then what can anyone do about that. That has nothing to do with kids.

What can anyone do about what? Keeping the teachers from getting Covid from their coworkers? Maybe not have school?

And of course it has what to do with kids! If a teacher is sick, the kids can get sick.

[avromie7]

What can anyone do about what? Keeping the teachers from getting Covid from their coworkers? Maybe not have school?

The same thing someone with any other job does.

[yaakov35]

What can anyone do about what? Keeping the teachers from getting Covid from their coworkers? Maybe not have school?

Not anymore or less risky then any job... target Walmart etc. Question was if students have an impact on the teachers health, my point was that you gave a bad example because there were no students involved.

[yitzgar]

The same thing someone with any other job does.

+

[Lurker]

Question was if students have an impact on the teachers health, my point was that you gave a bad example because there were no students involved.

I wrote that I know a lot of high-risk teachers and they need to be taken into account. The response that I got was that children aren't spreaders. First, that's simply not true. They do spread, but there is a possibility that they spread at a lesser rate than adults. Second, I then brought the example of the teachers who caught it over the summer and the resulting death, as an example of how teachers are at risk. The kids not being there doesn't make it better. If anything, the risk can only increase when the kids are there.

Not anymore or less risky then any job... target Walmart etc.

The same thing someone with any other job does.

To this point, teachers are not like most other jobs. A cashier or stock boy at Wal-Mart interacts with a masked individual, sometimes even through plexiglass, for moments at a time. They have exposure, but it is limited by the precautions and length of interaction. Office workers sharing a room are more comparable to classrooms, in that the people are together for extended periods of time. Many offices have taken additional precautions, such as plexiglass dividers, extra space between work stations, and mask usage. Many are enabling and encouraging working remotely. Many others decided that they can't find a safe way to do business and have laid off tons of employees.

If a school can take precautions to ensure the safety of their workers and the children, by all means, open the schools. But please don't tell me that they can open because the kids can't get it or pass it on, and high-risk employees should just be replaced.

[yungermanchik]

What can anyone do about what? Keeping the teachers from getting Covid from their coworkers?

YES, close the teachers' room but keep the classrooms open. The teachers can each come a few minutes apart and enter their classrooms and stagger their recesses, so they don't come in contact with the other teachers. These people are in education, they should be educated enough to figure out how to make this work.

[Lurker]

YES, close the teachers' room but keep the classrooms open. The teachers can each come a few minutes apart and enter their classrooms and stagger their recesses, so they don't come in contact with the other teachers. These people are in education, they should be educated enough to figure out how to make this work.

Again, if a plan can be put in place where the safety of the kids and staff are ensured, by all means. Just don't throw out bunk science about kids not spreading it as justification.

[yungermanchik]

Again, if a plan can be put in place where the safety of the kids and staff are ensured, by all means. Just don't throw out bunk science about kids not spreading it as justification.

It is not bunk science, when something is a mi'ut she'eino motzoi we don't reckon with it. In other words extremely low risk is considered by halacha to be like no risk.

And if someone wants to avoid even that slight possibility, by all means they should be allowed to get their job back the following year. But, if we consider the primary function of a school a place of education for the children and not primarily a place of employment for the teachers, we should make it work even if it means hiring new temporary teachers to replace them.

[CountValentine]

How can you trust these people to open schools safely when they have failed so miserably opening up their states? Then they are in complete denial that their states are failing.

[Lurker]

It is not bunk science, when something is a mi'ut she'eino motzoi we don't reckon with it. In other words extremely low risk is considered by halacha to be like no risk.

And if someone wants to avoid even that slight possibility, by all means they should be allowed to get their job back the following year. But, if we consider the primary function of a school a place of education for the children and not primarily a place of employment for the teachers, we should make it work even if it means hiring new temporary teachers to replace them.

My argument is that the only reason people believe it is a mi'ut she'eino motzoi is because of bunk science. The study I quoted, which was published 2 weeks ago, showed that children tested were giving off the same viral shed. In any other study I found, the lowest rate of transmission attributed to children was 8%, and that study was not based on tests, but off of assumptions on who the most likely transmitter was from contact tracing. If there are studies that can show that children do not shed virus, or shed at a level that you would consider a mi'ut she'eino motzoi, please post them.

[yungermanchik]

My argument is that the only reason people believe it is a mi'ut she'eino motzoi is because of bunk science. The study I quoted, which was published 2 weeks ago, showed that children tested were giving off the same viral shed. In any other study I found, the lowest rate of transmission attributed to children was 8%, and that study was not based on tests, but off of assumptions on who the most likely transmitter was from contact tracing. If there are studies that can show that children do not shed virus, or shed at a level that you would consider a mi'ut she'eino motzoi, please post them.

I know in your home state, this doesn't apply, but for those of us in the NY/NJ metro area, the virus transmission itself is quite rare, that many consider that to be a mi'ut she'eino motzoi,. Now, I know that you don't agree with that. However, when you factor that together with the fact that transmission from children is lower, I would think, perhaps even you would agree that it reaches that threshold.

[Lurker]

I know in your home state, this doesn't apply, but for those of us in the NY/NJ metro area, the virus transmission itself is quite rare, that many consider that to be a mi'ut she'eino motzoi,. Now, I know that you don't agree with that. However, when you factor that together with the fact that transmission from children is lower, I would think, perhaps even you would agree that it reaches that threshold.

If you're going to tell me that the virus is not coming back to NY/NJ, and the level of transmission will stay at it's current rate, then I can see the argument for opening schools. But by the same token, you have to agree that if the rate of transmission rises in NY/NJ, and confirmed cases become more prevalent, that kids possibly transmitting at a lesser rate is not a good reason to ignore the rising cases and open schools anyway.

Unless I'm reading these posts very wrong, I don't believe anyone making these arguments is hinging it on NY/NJ keeping their case count at under 1000/day.

[aygart]

It is not bunk science, when something is a mi'ut she'eino motzoi we don't reckon with it. In other words extremely low risk is considered by halacha to be like no risk.

Regarding medical questions? Really? Do you have a source for this?

[yungermanchik]

And if someone wants to avoid even that slight possibility, by all means they should be allowed to get their job back the following year. But, if we consider the primary function of a school a place of education for the children and not primarily a place of employment for the teachers, we should make it work even if it means hiring new temporary teachers to replace them.

My second point is self-standing, there are many fresh seminary students and yungerliet (low risk) who would gladly take even a temporary teaching position, in place of the veteran Teachers and Rabbeim. For those whose parents are high-risk or otherwise nervous, there can be Zoom classes also available (perhaps for a few schools together) as an alternative. But why should the kids from families that are low risk or have antibodies lose out?

[CountValentine]

You still think Trump was joking about slowing down testing?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-administration-pushing-to-block-new-money-for-testing-tracing-and-cdc-in-upcoming-coronavirus-relief-bill/ar-BB16UnyK?li=BBnb7Kz

[Lurker]

You still think Trump was joking about slowing down testing?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-administration-pushing-to-block-new-money-for-testing-tracing-and-cdc-in-upcoming-coronavirus-relief-bill/ar-BB16UnyK?li=BBnb7Kz

Many places in FL have run out of tests and/or are limited in the amount of tests they can administer per day. (I don't think this issue applies to hospitals at this point, but I may be wrong.)

[CountValentine]

Many places in FL have run out of tests and/or are limited in the amount of tests they can administer per day. (I don't think this issue applies to hospitals at this point, but I may be wrong.)

Seems to be the case in many hard hit places.

[mordechain]

Were you symptomatic? Perhaps only available for free if one has symptoms and if not need to go private and pay? Hypothesis

Update:
Had my son tested again in Canada today. They asked the reason for a retest. We said because he's going to camp.
No charge, results came back online in 12 hours...