COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread

[Lurker]

Do you think that everybody has Corona right now and bc of that we all have to wear masks?

If everyone has Covid, masks would be pretty pointless...

[S209]

Do you think that everybody has Corona right now and bc of that we all have to wear masks?

No, I don’t think everyone has Corona right now.

Now, your turn. Yes or no?

[neveryou]

Honest question. Do you believe the following statement: On average, a person infected with COVID-19 will infect fewer people if he wears a mask while in contact with others.

I think the proper time to wear a mask was 6 months ago before purim, not now when the virus already passed through

[ckmk47]

Honest question. Do you believe the following statement: On average, a person infected with COVID-19 will infect fewer people if he wears a mask while in contact with others.

I agree with that statement.
Next statement:  A person who's already had covid-19 has a remote chance of reinfection (so we can reasonably assume that he isn't infected with covid-19,) so he doesn't need to wear a mask.

[Lurker]

I agree with that statement.
Next statement:  A person who's already had covid-19 has a remote chance of reinfection (so we can reasonably assume that he isn't infected with covid-19,) so he doesn't need to wear a mask.

False. The chances of reinfection are not remote; they are unknown. We know reinfections happen. We do not yet know how prevalent they are or will be.

[ckmk47]

False. The chances of reinfection are not remote; they are unknown. We know reinfections happen. We do not yet know how prevalent they are or will be.

We can look to countries that had it before  us.  China, Italy

[aygart]

I think the proper time to wear a mask was 6 months ago before purim, not now when the virus already passed through

Do you not see that it is starting to pick up again? There is a distinct possibility that right now is similar to before Purim.

[S209]

I think the proper time to wear a mask was 6 months ago before purim, not now when the virus already passed through

You still didn’t answer the question, despite me answering yours. It was a yes or no question. Still, I can infer from your response that you *do* believe masks are effective in preventing transmission to others.

It’s great that you acknowledge that, because there is no medical camp that believes otherwise. I have posed a challenge on DDF many times to quote one doctor who disagrees and have yet to have been answered with one. That includes doctors on the record in public or doctors one consults in one’s personal life. I have spoken to several frum doctors personally about this issue and have been told by all that they are certainly effective and there is no debate.

With that in mind, what are the potential reasons to *not* wear a mask? I can only think of one possibility- personal comfort. Is there any other way it impacts us? Does it prevent us from performing Mitzvos, hurt the economy, or interfere with Chinuch?

[S209]

I agree with that statement.
Next statement:  A person who's already had covid-19 has a remote chance of reinfection (so we can reasonably assume that he isn't infected with covid-19,) so he doesn't need to wear a mask.

Ok. So it is your opinion that those who are certain to have had the virus don’t need to wear masks, and those who haven’t, should?

[Lurker]

We can look to countries that had it before  us.  China, Italy

Absolutely. In China, as soon as there is a confirmed case, 500 people go into quarantine. Italy still had and still has severe travel restrictions. The fact of the matter is, the virus isn't nearly as prevalent in the population in those places, so it will be very hard to find cases of reinfection when people aren't being exposed to the virus. There is nothing about those countries that tells you anything about the chances of reinfection.

[S209]

Absolutely. In China, as soon as there is a confirmed case, 500 people go into quarantine. Italy still had and still has severe travel restrictions. The fact of the matter is, the virus isn't nearly as prevalent in the population in those places, so it will be very hard to find cases of reinfection when people aren't being exposed to the virus. There is nothing about those countries that tells you anything about the chances of reinfection.

Unfortunately you have a serious point. I, like most of us, have been operating with the assumption that antibodies should be assumed to confer immunity until shown otherwise because we could expect other countries impacted first to report reinfection first. However, it seems the frum community will likely be the guinea pigs, as those countries who have a large amount of the population previously infected are also enforcing restrictions to keep the virus at bay, with the possible exception of Sweden. Even Sweden currently has greater restrictions in place, though.

There isn’t any evidence to suggest that it *doesn’t* confer immunity, but I no longer think we can point to other countries as proof. There is every reason to believe that the science community will be using Boro Park and Lakewood as their case studies on reinfection moving forward.

Let’s hope the studies show it does last a long time.

[aygart]

We can look to countries that had it before  us.  China, Italy

So today is a trust China day? I lost track.

[Mootkim]

Check out this article.
https://www-westernjournal-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.westernjournal.com/possibly-90-covid-positive-americans-not-even-contagious-says-shock-nyt-report/amp/

[Lurker]

Check out this article.
https://www-westernjournal-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.westernjournal.com/possibly-90-covid-positive-americans-not-even-contagious-says-shock-nyt-report/amp/

This is the article the unabashedly biased piece above butchered:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

Important to note: just because a person barely has any virus by the time they tested, does not mean they were never contagious.

[ckmk47]

Ok. So it is your opinion that those who are certain to have had the virus don’t need to wear masks, and those who haven’t, should?

My understanding of the virus as of now:
It spreads best indoors when people are forcefully exhaling - like davening in shul and dancing at a wedding.
Outdoors spread seems to be minimal.
Masks trap droplets exhaled, so if a person is shedding virus, a mask will catch many of the germs.
Reinfection is still rare.  I don't believe a word from the Chinese, but we don't see mass reinfection in any country whose infections were ahead of ours and whose peoples' antibody load has presumably dropped after a few months.


Lemaaseh: 
-Anyone who hasn't had it yet should probably wear a  mask in shul.  Even though you feel like a dork. Because if you just caught it and are not yet symptomatic, the old / at risk man who's also in shul might be at risk from you.
-Anyone who hasn't had it yet who has risk factors should wear a mask in shul, stores and most public places.
With the uptick in cases recently, please be especially vigilant.  Stay away from the public as much as possible. 


Please note:  Cloth masks do little but catch droplets. Surgical masks have more filtering ability, but are nowhere near 95% filtering.  N95 masks are great for filtering, but not great for breathing while doing your regular life.

[Jerseysteve]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-31/obese-patients-at-high-risk-of-severe-covid-illness-study-finds

[ckmk47]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-31/obese-patients-at-high-risk-of-severe-covid-illness-study-finds

yes.
risk factors:  High BMI,  diabetes (prediabetes),
male, old - old age diseases

[Euclid]

yes.
risk factors:  High BMI,  diabetes (prediabetes),
male, old - old age diseases

High BMI is a description that fits many (most?) frum men.

[username]

This is the article the unabashedly biased piece above butchered:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/29/health/coronavirus-testing.html

Important to note: just because a person barely has any virus by the time they tested, does not mean they were never contagious.

Informative article. Thanks for posting. Probably deserves its own thread.

[Yard sale]

Informative article. Thanks for posting. Probably deserves its own thread.

It does