COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread

[PlatinumGuy]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html

The entire world is waiting for a vaccine, the trial is waiting for 164 Covid cases in its 44,000 sample, but nobody will attempt to infect people, so we have to wait for the placebo group to naturally get it...

Governments need to rethink the ethics here.

[yzj]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html

The entire world is waiting for a vaccine, the trial is waiting for 164 Covid cases in its 44,000 sample, but nobody will attempt to infect people, so we have to wait for the placebo group to naturally get it...

Governments need to rethink the ethics here.

Would the Torah, the ultimate ethical authority say differently? לאו דוקא

[Euclid]

Would the Torah, the ultimate ethical authority say differently? לאו דוקא

It's the trolley problem...

[Dawie]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html

The entire world is waiting for a vaccine, the trial is waiting for 164 Covid cases in its 44,000 sample, but nobody will attempt to infect people, so we have to wait for the placebo group to naturally get it...

Governments need to rethink the ethics here.

clearly they haven;t been reading the lakewood covid board

[avromie7]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html

The entire world is waiting for a vaccine, the trial is waiting for 164 Covid cases in its 44,000 sample, but nobody will attempt to infect people, so we have to wait for the placebo group to naturally get it...

Governments need to rethink the ethics here.

CMIIW, I think part of the trial is to see the efficacy in the real world. I think @biobook explained it, they would need to decide what dosage of the virus and how to deliver it, and whatever they use may not be the same as real world exposure.

[biobook]

CMIIW, I think part of the trial is to see the efficacy in the real world. I think @biobook explained it, they would need to decide what dosage of the virus and how to deliver it, and whatever they use may not be the same as real world exposure.

Just thinking about that.  When was it?  Back in April, maybe?  We were discussing the ethical issues in deliberately trying to infect someone at a time when there was no accepted treatment. 

Now there's a group in England that argues that treatment for those who catch covid is good enough and and young people have volunteered for this sort of experiment. 
https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/trial-to-deliberately-infect-people-with-coronavirus-draws-mixed-reaction/

[S209]

CMIIW, I think part of the trial is to see the efficacy in the real world. I think @biobook explained it, they would need to decide what dosage of the virus and how to deliver it, and whatever they use may not be the same as real world exposure.

Yes but they could place them in places with major outbreaks and have them engage in risky behavior. Perhaps they should attend a wedding in Bais Faiga

[ExGingi]

The CDC recognizes them as effective regarding quarantine requirements for 3 months, do they not?

What policy does CDC set?

Also, as pointed, I don't see mention of antibodies (didn't check source, just quote brought here).

[Ergel]

It's the trolley problem...

No it's not

[Euclid]

No it's not

Doing an action to sacrifice one for the sake of many is the trolley problem. How is this not that? We would knowingly infect a small number of people in order to save a (much) larger group.

[Ergel]

Doing an action to sacrifice one for the sake of many is the trolley problem. How is this not that? We would knowingly infect a small number of people in order to save a (much) larger group.

The trolley problem is you are killing some to save many. Totally a different calculus than endangering some to save many

[avromie7]

The trolley problem is you are killing some to save many. Totally a different calculus than endangering some to save many

FTFY

[Ergel]

FTFY

Thanks

[Euclid]

The trolley problem is you are killing some to save many. Totally a different calculus than endangering some to save many

That's still the trolley problem in this context.

[ckmk47]

Naturally occurring antibodies kill .65% of patients, not to mention numerous horrific side effects already documented, so I’d prefer to go with the antibodies that may or may not cause transverse myelitis in one in 40,000 cases.

That statistical death rate takes all comers.  In young, healthy people the fatality rate is MUCH smaller.
If the vaccine were tested on such a low risk group, and they were purposely exposed....

[S209]

That statistical death rate takes all comers.  In young, healthy people the fatality rate is MUCH smaller.
If the vaccine were tested on such a low risk group, and they were purposely exposed....

I was not replying to the poster about the ethics of exposure, I was replying to @ExGingi about antibodies vs. vaccine

[Lurker]

MI announced as many cases today as HI has had since the beginning of the pandemic. The Buddhists were right: be an island.

[yzj]

The trolley problem is you are killing some to save many. Totally a different calculus than endangering some to save many

How about holding off on requesting the EUA and sacrificing a few people so Biden can win the election and you can save the planet from impending doom due to global warming.

[yuneeq]

Doing an action to sacrifice one for the sake of many is the trolley problem. How is this not that? We would knowingly infect a small number of people in order to save a (much) larger group.

The trolley problem is about the ethics of making a choice to intentionally kill someone to save others from guaranteed death. In this case it is the participants themselves making the choice. Additionally it is no guarantee they will be harmed, and no guarantee they will save others.

In other words, trolley problem is completely irrelevant here.

[Euclid]

The trolley problem is about the ethics of making a choice to intentionally kill someone to save others from guaranteed death. In this case it is the participants themselves making the choice. Additionally it is no guarantee they will be harmed, and no guarantee they will save others.

In other words, trolley problem is completely irrelevant here.

You're looking at it from the wrong direction. What is the original moral problem with infecting vaccine test participants?