Topic Wiki

Dashboards:
BNO News
1.3 Acres - Great US/Canada dashboard
Worldometers - Includes demographics data and much more
John Hopkins
https://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

Live updates:
BNO Twitter
NY Times
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/coronavirus?mod=theme_coronavirus-ribbon
Reddit boards- Coronavirus, China_Flu, Wuhan_Flu (more rumors/unverified content allowed)

Educational Articles:
WSJ - What we know about the Coronavirus
Infographics from SCMP (out of date, a lot still relevant)

Relief Roundup:
Chai+1
« Last edited by Joel on July 19, 2021, 01:49:19 AM »

Author Topic: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread  (Read 580209 times)

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1900 on: April 13, 2020, 08:14:12 PM »
Can we please ignore the number of cases. Its meaningless. Deaths as a lagging indicator will be the final arbiter of how bad it was when this is over. Looking at it from the inside out at this moment in time is really not the way to look at this.
Death isn't the be-all-end-all.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4911
  • Total likes: 6141
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1901 on: April 13, 2020, 08:31:29 PM »
Death isn't the be-all-end-all.

(The origin of the phrase "be-all, end-all" is used in reference to death. ;) )

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1902 on: April 13, 2020, 08:53:46 PM »
Death isn't the be-all-end-all.

Pretty sure it's the end-all...
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5588
  • Total likes: 1148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1903 on: April 13, 2020, 08:55:49 PM »
Death isn't the be-all-end-all.
Reported cases are meaningless. There are 8 million in NYC alone and only 200k positive tests out of how many tested? positive cases are a very very poor metric. If you use them NYS has a 5%+ death rate which is just not true while Israel has a .9% rate. They arent doing that much of a better job than us. Deaths are a lagging indicator. Everyone agrees on that. But to use positive cases as a metric other than for the hyperbole that the media needs/uses/wants it for, is foolish.
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline Euclid

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 4911
  • Total likes: 6141
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1904 on: April 13, 2020, 09:52:17 PM »
Reported cases are meaningless. There are 8 million in NYC alone and only 200k positive tests out of how many tested? positive cases are a very very poor metric. If you use them NYS has a 5%+ death rate which is just not true while Israel has a .9% rate. They arent doing that much of a better job than us. Deaths are a lagging indicator. Everyone agrees on that. But to use positive cases as a metric other than for the hyperbole that the media needs/uses/wants it for, is foolish.

Deaths are problematic too if (as reported) they aren't enumerating the COVID-19 deaths occurring out of hospitals.

Offline simple26

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jul 2018
  • Posts: 451
  • Total likes: 121
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 5
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1905 on: April 13, 2020, 11:34:43 PM »
Reported cases are meaningless. There are 8 million in NYC alone and only 200k positive tests out of how many tested? positive cases are a very very poor metric. If you use them NYS has a 5%+ death rate which is just not true while Israel has a .9% rate. They arent doing that much of a better job than us. Deaths are a lagging indicator. Everyone agrees on that. But to use positive cases as a metric other than for the hyperbole that the media needs/uses/wants it for, is foolish.
8 million what ?
Reported cases? Does that mean the whole nyc had it ?

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5588
  • Total likes: 1148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1906 on: April 14, 2020, 12:01:24 AM »
8 million what ?
Reported cases? Does that mean the whole nyc had it ?
8 million people. With 200k reported positives. Sorry wasnt clear.
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline avromie7

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 8188
  • Total likes: 2713
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 6
    • View Profile
  • Location: Lakewood
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1907 on: April 14, 2020, 12:17:43 AM »
8 million people. With 200k reported positives. Sorry wasnt clear.
it's a little over 100k cases in NYC
I wonder what people who type "u" instead of "you" do with all their free time.

Offline yitzgar

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3078
  • Total likes: 1277
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1908 on: April 14, 2020, 12:43:10 AM »
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 12:47:49 AM by yitzgar »

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5588
  • Total likes: 1148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1909 on: April 14, 2020, 12:51:36 AM »
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1910 on: April 14, 2020, 04:36:13 AM »
We've gone through this before, and there are no good numbers to work with. I'll try to sum it up.

The issue with confirmed cases starts with our numbers in the US. We know most people with the virus didn't get tested. We also know that the accuracy of the tests has been reported to be as low as 50-60%. Both os these things are leading to greatly underreported confirmed cases here. To then compare our inaccurate numbers to those of other countries, who are administrating different tests in different ways and have a plethora of their own issues... let's just say it's very far from scientific.

Deaths are a little more accurate, but not by much. There are 2 main issues with comparing US deaths with other countries. The first is accuracy. The US has pretty accurate statistics on deaths, even those at home, but they aren't complete. While some other countries also have accurate death records, they are a tiny minority. Most countries don't have the infrastructure to report accurately on a good day, and definitely not during a crisis. The second issue with death numbers is that each country has their own standard for what they consider a Covid-19 related death. The US has the broadest definition. If you die in the US and Covid-19 is a factor, you count. Cancer, heart attack, kidney issue, degenerative disease - doesn't matter. If covid-19 played any kind of part, it counts. Other countries have a very wide variety of definitions, and they are more likely to have narrower criteria.

In other words, to do a comparative study, you need to compare apples to apples. We don't even know how many apples we have to compare to their oranges, cherries, or bananas.
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline Yard sale

  • Dansdeals Platinum Elite + Lifetime Gold Elite
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2018
  • Posts: 900
  • Total likes: 471
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 0
    • View Profile

Online CountValentine

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 15787
  • Total likes: 7316
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips -1
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
  • Location: Poland - Exiled
  • Programs: DAOTYA, DDF Level 3, 5K Lounge
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1912 on: April 14, 2020, 06:20:23 AM »
If you die in the US and Covid-19 is a factor, you count. Cancer, heart attack, kidney issue, degenerative disease - doesn't matter. If covid-19 played any kind of part, it counts.
Do you have a source for this?
Only on DDF does 24/6 mean 24/5/half/half

Online moko

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 4567
  • Total likes: 1484
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: BOS
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1913 on: April 14, 2020, 07:23:32 AM »
Do you have a source for this?
Firsthand knowledge...

Offline efflpetzel

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: Aug 2012
  • Posts: 2835
  • Total likes: 133
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 1
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1914 on: April 14, 2020, 07:46:00 AM »
We've gone through this before, and there are no good numbers to work with. I'll try to sum it up.

The issue with confirmed cases starts with our numbers in the US. We know most people with the virus didn't get tested. We also know that the accuracy of the tests has been reported to be as low as 50-60%. Both os these things are leading to greatly underreported confirmed cases here. To then compare our inaccurate numbers to those of other countries, who are administrating different tests in different ways and have a plethora of their own issues... let's just say it's very far from scientific.

Deaths are a little more accurate, but not by much. There are 2 main issues with comparing US deaths with other countries. The first is accuracy. The US has pretty accurate statistics on deaths, even those at home, but they aren't complete. While some other countries also have accurate death records, they are a tiny minority. Most countries don't have the infrastructure to report accurately on a good day, and definitely not during a crisis. The second issue with death numbers is that each country has their own standard for what they consider a Covid-19 related death. The US has the broadest definition. If you die in the US and Covid-19 is a factor, you count. Cancer, heart attack, kidney issue, degenerative disease - doesn't matter. If covid-19 played any kind of part, it counts. Other countries have a very wide variety of definitions, and they are more likely to have narrower criteria.

In other words, to do a comparative study, you need to compare apples to apples. We don't even know how many apples we have to compare to their oranges, cherries, or bananas.
So if you die in the USA from whatever reason & test positive for Covid-19 you are presumed to have died of Covid-19, the same is in Europe & most other democracies, so why can't the death rate be a good indicator

Offline Proisrael

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 1497
  • Total likes: 276
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 7
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Location: Krayot,Israel
  • Programs: SPG,Hilton,Club Carlson
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1915 on: April 14, 2020, 07:46:40 AM »
Do you have a source for this?

Same in Israel. Regardless of how close to death a person was if they had COVID they are classified as a victim.

Offline Ergel

  • Dansdeals Lifetime 10K Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Jun 2010
  • Posts: 12818
  • Total likes: 905
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1916 on: April 14, 2020, 08:36:32 AM »
Do you have a source for this?
He can't, because it differs from state to state
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

Offline Lurker

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Jul 2019
  • Posts: 5054
  • Total likes: 6390
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 2
    • View Profile
  • Location: As always, silence is NOT an admission of agreement on DDF. It just means that people lack the stamina to keep on arguing with made up "facts", illogical arguments, deceiving statements, nasty and degrading comments, and fuzzy math. - @yelped
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1917 on: April 14, 2020, 09:06:22 AM »
Do you have a source for this?

Dr. Deborah Birx, WH Press Briefing, April 7, 2020
Failing at maintaining Lurker status.

Offline shaulyaakov

  • Dansdeals Presidential Platinum Elite
  • ********
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 2781
  • Total likes: 326
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 3
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1918 on: April 14, 2020, 09:12:54 AM »
Nyc is not counting many who are dying at home as they were never tested.

The number of cardiac arrest deaths at homes in NYC has gone up 400%.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/massive-spike-in-nyc-cardiac-arrest-deaths-seen-as-sign-of-covid-19-undercounting/2368678/%3famp

Offline hvaces42

  • Dansdeals Lifetime Presidential Platinum Elite
  • *********
  • Join Date: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 5588
  • Total likes: 1148
  • DansDeals.com Hat Tips 14
    • View Profile
Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #1919 on: April 14, 2020, 09:33:33 AM »
Nyc is not counting many who are dying at home as they were never tested.

The number of cardiac arrest deaths at homes in NYC has gone up 400%.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/massive-spike-in-nyc-cardiac-arrest-deaths-seen-as-sign-of-covid-19-undercounting/2368678/%3famp
Many associated with HCY. They are seeing an unprecedented spike in people dying from pulmonary embolisms. My daughter spoke with the Chief of Nephrology at Columbia yesterday. He said he is seeing d dimer (blood coagulation test) results that are so high they cannot be measured by current testing methods. This is causing the heart attacks etc.

I specifically know of one case of a man I knew who had many medical issues that he was living with. He was in shul on Purim. He had a heart attack at the seder and lived 24 hours after in the hospital. However, since he had tested positive he is being counted as a COVID-19 statistic per his Death Certificate. 
Fair warning - Any PMs sent in response to forum posts are fair game for ridicule in public.