COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread

[Afrages6]

The assumption is thing will change in the next 6 months or so.

What change are you referring too?

[CountValentine]

What change are you referring too?

Therapeutics and or vaccine.

[S209]

I don’t have a definitive answer, but because I don’t, I wouldn’t rush into a situation that is fluid and is clearly risking many deaths and a lot of illness. Medicine is making progress every day, and we see signs of a vaccine and proper treatment protocols on the horizon. Mind you, we don’t even know the full effects of the virus on its victims yet. For the dead, it’s death, but what about everyone else? If we can’t answer that question, we’re far away from easing all restrictions.

I think there is room to ease many restrictions if everybody is fully informed of the precautions they need to take, and we are very very careful. Things like wearing masks in public, restrictions on how many people can get together, spacing, strict quarantining of positive cases, etc. But I’d feel a lot more comfortable first knowing what exactly this virus is, what it does, and what we can do to treat it.

I’m still curious if what I stated is what you believe

So you think that from a purely *Torah* point of view, leaving aside the fact that each minute of life is precious so even just delaying an inevitable demise is worth the world, we in Jewish communities should accept more people dying, possibly far more (we don’t know yet) because of the economy etc.? I’m asking, not arguing.

We rush to associate this with things we are familiar with but we need to realize we do not have an accurate yardstick. What if life never goes back to normal, but you won’t die 30 years younger due to the virus? There are too many unknown variable to get out there and infect everyone, including sentencing a bunch to death, because “it’s too long, too hard, too harsh, unrealistic”

[Kobe Bryant]

I don’t have a definitive answer, but because I don’t, I wouldn’t rush into a situation that is fluid and is clearly risking many deaths and a lot of illness. Medicine is making progress every day, and we see signs of a vaccine and proper treatment protocols on the horizon. Mind you, we don’t even know the full effects of the virus on its victims yet. For the dead, it’s death, but what about everyone else? If we can’t answer that question, we’re far away from easing all restrictions.

I think there is room to ease many restrictions if everybody is fully informed of the precautions they need to take, and we are very very careful. Things like wearing masks in public, restrictions on how many people can get together, spacing, strict quarantining of positive cases, etc. But I’d feel a lot more comfortable first knowing what exactly this virus is, what it does, and what we can do to treat it.

I’m still curious if what I stated is what you believe
We rush to associate this with things we are familiar with but we need to realize we do not have an accurate yardstick. What if life never goes back to normal, but you won’t die 30 years younger due to the virus? There are too many unknown variable to get out there and infect everyone, including sentencing a bunch to death, because “it’s too long, too hard, too harsh, unrealistic”

AFAIK no one is mandating you can't stay locked-up indefinitely, what you are proposing is for the Government to be able to restrict the freedoms of those who have calculated the CBA of resuming some form of normal life (given the situation, including masks, social distancing etc.) and force them to stay at home with all the ramifications that entails.

[S209]

AFAIK no one is mandating you can't stay locked-up indefinitely, what you are proposing is for the Government to be able to restrict the freedoms of those who have calculated the CBA of resuming some form of normal life (given the situation, including masks, social distancing etc.) and force them to stay at home with all the ramifications that entails.

I’m not necessarily on the side of government enforcing them, I’m on the side of them being enforced somehow, whether that be through peer pressure, religious leaders, or business policies.

Not everyone gets to calculate their own CBA when it affects others. Just like we wouldn’t want the government to be able to arrest us if we go to the grocery store with flu-like symptoms during regular times, we probably would want intervention if someone is walking around with an AK-47 and randomly spraying bullets in the air with the logic that he feels it’s safe enough for him, leave if you don’t like it.

Point being, your personal CBA, when it affects others, is not the final say in everything. Government does play some role here, although to what extent is unclear and being debated. I don’t have a strong position either way. As Ben Shapiro often says, your right to swing your fist ends at my face.

[Kobe Bryant]

I’m not necessarily on the side of government enforcing them, I’m on the side of them being enforced somehow, whether that be through peer pressure, religious leaders, or business policies.

Not everyone gets to calculate their own CBA when it affects others. Just like we wouldn’t want the government to be able to arrest us if we go to the grocery store with flu-like symptoms during regular times, we probably would want intervention if someone is walking around with an AK-47 and randomly spraying bullets in the air with the logic that he feels it’s safe enough for him, leave if you don’t like it.

Point being, your personal CBA, when it affects others, is not the final say in everything. Government does play some role here, although to what extent is unclear and being debated. I don’t have a strong position either way. As Ben Shapiro often says, your right to swing your fist ends at my face.

Regardless, in your scenario you are staying home, the question is whether or not you can force me to stay home as well.
So in this case, you presume that i am swinging my fist, the only issue is, you are safely tucked away in you bunker, and therefore i may continue to swing at the air.....
As Ben Shapiro often says "Facts don't care about your feelings".

[S209]

Regardless, in your scenario you are staying home, the question is whether or not you can force me to stay home as well.
So in this case, you presume that i am swinging my fist, the only issue is, you are safely tucked away in you bunker, and therefore i may continue to swing at the air.....
As Ben Shapiro often says "Facts don't care about your feelings".

So I can’t go to the grocery store in as safe a manner as possible for me because it’s really unsafe due to other people being reckless. At what point do my rights supersede your rights? If everyone wears masks, safe for everyone. If half the people wear masks, safe for nobody.

Are you saying because you want the right to be unsafe I need to hunker down in a bunker and starve?

[Kobe Bryant]

So I can’t go to the grocery store in as safe a manner as possible for me because it’s really unsafe due to other people being reckless. At what point do my rights supersede your rights? If everyone wears masks, safe for everyone. If half the people wear masks, safe for nobody.

Are you saying because you want the right to be unsafe I need to hunker down in a bunker and starve?

I am saying that at no point do your rights supersede my rights!
If all you are advocating for is for people to wear masks and keep to social distancing in public places, then we are in agreement, as the cost is low.

AFAIK no one is mandating you can't stay locked-up indefinitely, what you are proposing is for the Government to be able to restrict the freedoms of those who have calculated the CBA of resuming some form of normal life (given the situation, including masks, social distancing etc.) and force them to stay at home with all the ramifications that entails.

[ExGingi]

From Russia comes a new, previously unreported symptom of COVID-19.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/6/21248553/coronavirus-russia-doctors-windows-death

[yelped]

From Russia comes a new, previously unreported symptom of COVID-19.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/5/6/21248553/coronavirus-russia-doctors-windows-death

I think we all know what the cause was....

[S209]

I am saying that at no point do your rights supersede my rights!
If all you are advocating for is for people to wear masks and keep to social distancing in public places, then we are in agreement, as the cost is low.

My rights, in relation to you, can be limited by government. If most people (the government) believe you walking around without a mask, for example, is excessively dangerous for others, I think they have a right to mandate it. Now the question is, where does that end and overreach begin? I think that’s the debate, not IF they have a right to mandate and restrict certain behaviors.

Unless of course you’re libertarian or an anarchist.

You seem to believe mandating masks and social distancing is fine, but that’s it. There are millions who believe more is fine, and millions who believe even less is allowed.

[ckmk47]

So I can’t go to the grocery store in as safe a manner as possible for me because it’s really unsafe due to other people being reckless?

Are you saying because you want the right to be unsafe I need to hunker down in a bunker and starve?

At this point, we're up to the vulnerable continuing to quarantine.  They need to be careful not to come in contact with the virus.  From the start, those at risk needed to be more careful than others.
Those who've had it, or don't mind if they get it, should be free to take the risks of meeting others. 

[aygart]

At this point, we're up to the vulnerable continuing to quarantine.  They need to be careful not to come in contact with the virus.  From the start, those at risk needed to be more careful than others.
Those who've had it, or don't mind if they get it, should be free to take the risks of meeting others. 

Vulnerable like these?

https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1258150670101856261?s=19

https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/featured/1857919/lakewood-child-on-vent-many-children-hospitalized-in-nyc-with-kawasaki-disease-possibly-from-covid-19.html

[ckmk47]

yup
These are rare instances. We accept that life is not risk free. 


If not now, when?  If there is no change in medical ability in 3 months, is that when we call it quits on a total quarantine?  6 months?

[aygart]

yup
These are rare instances. We accept that life is not risk free. 


If not now, when?  If there is no change in medical ability in 3 months, is that when we call it quits on a total quarantine?  6 months?

And the miscarriages and the way we regularly find more things it caused.

[ckmk47]

And the miscarriages and the way we regularly find more things it caused.

debunked

[aygart]

debunked

Where?

[ckmk47]

https://vosizneias.com/2020/05/06/most-new-covid-19-patients-in-ny-not-working-older-survey/

Almost three-quarters of the Covid19 diagnosed in the last 3 days were 51 years or older.

The older, heavier, sicker people have to protect themselves by staying in quarantine.
Not the ones who've already had it.

[aygart]

https://vosizneias.com/2020/05/06/most-new-covid-19-patients-in-ny-not-working-older-survey/

Almost three-quarters of the Covid19 diagnosed in the last 3 days were 51 years or older.

The older, heavier, sicker people have to protect themselves by staying in quarantine.
Not the ones who've already had it.

Went from 80 to 70 to 60 and now 51.

[S209]

yup
These are rare instances. We accept that life is not risk free. 


If not now, when?  If there is no change in medical ability in 3 months, is that when we call it quits on a total quarantine?  6 months?

How do you know they are rare? The first reports came in yesterday in NYC. Today, they more than quadrupled.

We are learning more about this virus in droves. Each day you could write a book about the information learned and progress made.

You have suggested 40+ be quarantined, that obviously includes their children. So you would have only young couples and their children be out and about?