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« Last edited by Joel on July 19, 2021, 01:49:19 AM »

Author Topic: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread  (Read 597707 times)

Offline aygart

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3800 on: December 28, 2020, 10:34:49 PM »
This isn't a D/R issue. Any competent president would've rushed it faster.
In your dreams. That is a total lack of awareness. There is nothing any D pollution did to indicate that ache plenty to indicate the opposite.

Also, very easy to say a year later. This is nothing but delusion.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3801 on: December 28, 2020, 10:54:04 PM »
In your dreams. That is a total lack of awareness. There is nothing any D pollution did to indicate that ache plenty to indicate the opposite.

Also, very easy to say a year later. This is nothing but delusion.

Here is a quick Google example. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative/programs/accelerating-rollout-new-vaccines

There is nothing tying Trump to other Republican politicians on this matter other than you being brainwashed by Democrats-Are-Evil  Trumpsters.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline aygart

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3802 on: December 28, 2020, 11:05:44 PM »


Here is a quick Google example. https://www.clintonfoundation.org/our-work/clinton-health-access-initiative/programs/accelerating-rollout-new-vaccines

There is nothing tying Trump to other Republican politicians on this matter other than you being brainwashed by Democrats-Are-Evil  Trumpsters.

An article about general vaccines? Really?

I know, this vaccine was too not fast enough and also too rushed.

Lol on the last part. You must not be reading my posts. Even the ones you liked.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3803 on: December 28, 2020, 11:11:05 PM »

An article about general vaccines? Really?

I know, this vaccine was too not fast enough and also too rushed.

Lol on the last part. You must not be reading my posts. Even the ones you liked.
From the posts I read, it appears you're aware of the brainwash and fighting it (which is a lot more than most here) but not quite overcoming it entirely. Even if you believe Trump outperformed a regular president, this isn't a R vs D policy. There is zero reason to think a different R president would be better than a D president.

It's not the first time you accused me of it, but again, I never said these vaccines were too rushed. Human challenge trials should have started in January and we should have had the entire US vaccinated by June.

״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline S209

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3804 on: December 28, 2020, 11:39:34 PM »
Human challenge trials should have started in January and we should have had the entire US vaccinated by June.
So you agree challenge trials would have been quicker?
Quote from: YitzyS
Quotes in a signature is annoying, as it comes across as an independent post.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3805 on: December 28, 2020, 11:40:41 PM »
Human challenge trials should have started in January and we should have had the entire US vaccinated by June.

And the democrats would be screaming that it isn't safe and no way are they allowing it into their states. At least that's how Cuomo was acting when they were talking about rushing a vaccine and approval. And most (if not all) Ds were in agreement with him. So it's not brainwashing. It was just the Ds having a need to be against Trump by default, no matter what.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3806 on: December 28, 2020, 11:43:27 PM »
So you agree challenge trials would have been quicker?
I think so. I've posted elsewhere that some professionals argued that wasn't the case, but I'm not convinced.

I've been questioning prevailing ethics beliefs all along.

One of the most irritating aspects of Covid to me is that most Western societies have become fairly comfortable with Covid deaths, but draw the line at hospitals overflowing. We tolerate loss of life so long as it doesn't happen from lack of hospital capacity.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3807 on: December 28, 2020, 11:46:48 PM »
And the democrats would be screaming that it isn't safe and no way are they allowing it into their states. At least that's how Cuomo was acting when they were talking about rushing a vaccine and approval. And most (if not all) Ds were in agreement with him. So it's not brainwashing. It was just the Ds having a need to be against Trump by default, no matter what.
Coumo said he would have to review the FDA approval process independently. The FDA approval could've happened months ago with similar data and a similar level of confidence. The hold up was ethics and bureaucracy of the trial procedure and has nothing to do with the safety confidence interval.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

Offline iluv2travel

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3808 on: December 28, 2020, 11:55:53 PM »
Coumo said he would have to review the FDA approval process independently. The FDA approval could've happened months ago with similar data and a similar level of confidence. The hold up was ethics and bureaucracy of the trial procedure and has nothing to do with the safety confidence interval.

Its common knowledge that Cuomo was saying it just to spite Trump. If Biden would be there he would keep quiet.

And even with the vaccine rolling out now there are so many people hesitant to take it because they feel it was too rushed, Kal v'chomer, if it would have been rolled out 6 months ago. I'm personally neutral on the vaccine, regardless if they would have it last April already or it would take until next summer, but there are obviously many people who wouldn't be comfortable with taking one last April and on the other hand loads of people would be upset if it took too long until next summer. It's a no win situation.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3809 on: December 29, 2020, 12:01:44 AM »
Its common knowledge
No, it's partisan brainwashing.

And even with the vaccine rolling out now there are so many people hesitant to take it because they feel it was too rushed, Kal v'chomer, if it would have been rolled out 6 months ago. I'm personally neutral on the vaccine, regardless if they would have it last April already or it would take until next summer, but there are obviously many people who wouldn't be comfortable with taking one last April and on the other hand loads of people would be upset if it took too long until next summer. It's a no win situation.
I think very few people are trusting a vaccine that took 9 months and wouldn't trust a vaccine that took 3 months. In the end you either believe reality or conspiracy. Regardless, no reason to artificially slow down a vaccine just to generate confidence.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3810 on: December 29, 2020, 12:15:30 AM »
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1343569173260210177?s=21

Biden to push for more vaccine production.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3811 on: December 29, 2020, 12:22:41 AM »
https://twitter.com/cnbc/status/1343569173260210177?s=21

Biden to push for more vaccine production.

Propaganda

"the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement to CNBC that the Trump administration has already invoked the Defense Production Act 18 times in relation to vaccine production.
...
Gounder did not explain how or whether Biden intends to equitably use the law"
Visibly Jewish

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3812 on: December 29, 2020, 12:36:14 AM »
Propaganda

"the Department of Health and Human Services said in a statement to CNBC that the Trump administration has already invoked the Defense Production Act 18 times in relation to vaccine production.
...
Gounder did not explain how or whether Biden intends to equitably use the law"
I didn't realize the DPA is used so often. Apparently DoD uses it 300,000 every year in routine procurement.

Gounder did say in the interview Biden will improve testing programs and genome sequencing, something Trump has not only not improved but outright asked to slow down
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3813 on: December 29, 2020, 02:37:44 AM »
China released the virus genetic sequence on Jan 11. Moderna had the vaccine on Jan 13. It took the FDA until March to approve the first clinical trial.

We are our worse enemies.

Maybe for a diff thread, but I'd like to imagine that the vaccine creation process becomes FDA approved one day. If Moderna can design a safe vaccine overnight, there's no reason future vaccines can't be created the same way, and why should it take 11 months to release a MRNA vaccine that will work practically the same as the COVID vaccine? Then, along with the idea that multiple MRNA vaccines can be combined in one shot, how about a flu shot that includes all the possible strains each flu season, then the flu vaccine might actually serve a purpose.

Going one step further - if most of the adverse reactions are not due to the vaccine itself but rather the delivery mechanism, perhaps once someone is already getting one vaccine you may as well add in vaccines for illnesses that weren't previously worth the risk of vaccinating against.
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Offline Ergel

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3814 on: December 29, 2020, 07:34:57 AM »
Maybe for a diff thread, but I'd like to imagine that the vaccine creation process becomes FDA approved one day. If Moderna can design a safe vaccine overnight, there's no reason future vaccines can't be created the same way, and why should it take 11 months to release a MRNA vaccine that will work practically the same as the COVID vaccine? Then, along with the idea that multiple MRNA vaccines can be combined in one shot, how about a flu shot that includes all the possible strains each flu season, then the flu vaccine might actually serve a purpose.

Going one step further - if most of the adverse reactions are not due to the vaccine itself but rather the delivery mechanism, perhaps once someone is already getting one vaccine you may as well add in vaccines for illnesses that weren't previously worth the risk of vaccinating against.
Yup. And the other potential uses of mRNA therapy (specifically against tumors/cancers) are fascinating to consider.
See https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243 from almost 3 years ago
Life isn't about checking the boxes. Nobody cares.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3815 on: December 29, 2020, 08:29:39 AM »
If mRNA is as successful as hoped - it would be a silver lining from this pandemic, giving it the kickstart it apparently needed after floundering for so long.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3816 on: December 29, 2020, 11:35:25 AM »
Does anyone remember this? A long few weeks it's been!
And they (MIGAL) don't have a vaccine. Unfortunately, the Israelis have a tendency to make grand announcements and then you never hear about them again.

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3817 on: December 29, 2020, 01:03:37 PM »
If mRNA is as successful as hoped - it would be a silver lining from this pandemic, giving it the kickstart it apparently needed after floundering for so long.
I've made this point elsewhere. Iyh 2020 will be remembered as the turning point, bringing medicine into the 21st century and one of the greatest events to happen to mankind, as was the discovery of Penicillin and antibiotics 100 years ago.
״וזה כלל גדול: שישנא אדם כל דבר שקר. וכל מה שיוסיף שנאה לדרכי השקר – יוסיף אהבה לתורה.״ - אורחות צדיקים

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3818 on: December 30, 2020, 04:23:15 PM »
Someone sent this to me- great.

From *Rabbi Chananya Weissman*:

*Herd Insanity*

Not too long ago, a daredevil was someone who climbed Mount Everest or jumped out of planes. That's all changed. Right now I'm the bravest person in the room.

I'm willing to shake hands.

This past Shabbos I made it known that I was willing to shake anyone's hand at my minyan. People responded with bewilderment, amazement, and maybe a touch of admiration. But there were no takers. They didn't want to die.

Praying outside on a windy, frigid Shabbos was an acceptable risk, but shaking my hand was asking for it. The benefits were too small, the risk simply not worth it.

I read the Torah on Shabbos, as I do almost every week. Those given an aliya endangered their lives to stand closer to me than usual, but it was only for a few moments, and worth the risk. Despite the added danger, however, none of them saw fit to bentch gomel. Interesting.

None of the men kissed the Torah. One man touched it with the end of his tallis, then brought the tallis up to his mask for a pretend kiss. Apparently, touching the outside of your mask with invisible death is safe enough and in line with current health ministry guidelines.

I made a point of touching the Torah, then kissing my fingers, and announced that I was not afraid it would be the kiss of death. The other men looked at me with astonishment and nervous smiles, unsure if I was crazy, heroic, or the only sane one. That's what the fear and confusion have reduced us to.

A Jew is not supposed to be like this.

We have been reduced to a community of paranoid hypochondriacs, afraid that every breath will kill us, that the most basic human contact is an unreasonable roll of the dice, that everything we once considered normal and even obligatory must be off limits indefinitely – in some cases even forever.

This is insane. This is against everything the Torah teaches us.

I am not denying that covid is real and should be taken seriously. At the same time, I am denying that the angel of death is roaming among us, felling people left and right like Biblical plagues. This is not a Biblical plague. There are a million ways we can die, and covid is just another one.

I don't want to get it, and I don't want to give it to anyone else, but the terror that we have been living with for the last year is unjustified. Because of this terror, one third of Israel is currently living in poverty, with many others barely hanging on. Drug and alcohol abuse are up; domestic abuse is up; suicides are up; social workers are overwhelmed; elderly people are dying from loneliness; children are traumatized; parents are falling apart; thousands of businesses have closed forever; and so much more.

They tell us if it saves one life it's worth it. That is a ridiculous bit of propaganda. We are not saving any lives. We are destroying our society and everyone in it – except for a very privileged and powerful few.

Worst of all, we are losing our minds, losing our spirits, losing our very humanity.

Chazal teach us that an impoverished person is like a dead person. The government has no moral right to impoverish millions of people, destroying their lives and their families, because it may conceivably protect other people's lives. They have no right to decide whose livelihood is essential, nor whose life is more essential; those who "lock down" their populations should instead be locked up.

If we know someone has covid we should not share the air they breathe. However, it is not the Jewish way to live in terror that everyone around us is infected, and that every object is carrying a deadly virus. It is forbidden to think like this, and it is forbidden to live like this.

It is forbidden to refrain from kissing a Torah because maybe someone else touched it, and maybe they shed some virus particles onto the Torah, and maybe those virus particles will enter your body and kill you and others.

It is forbidden to distance yourself from loved ones, friends, and strangers because you are afraid their breath or touch will kill you, or that yours will kill them, when you have no concrete reason to believe anyone is infected.

God does not want us to live this way. The Torah does not teach us to live this way.

There is no precedent in our history for Jews to live this way, even during the worst of plagues. For a short time, maybe. Even so, it was never like this. The sick were quarantined, and those who were afraid to be near them were absolved from doing so. But it was never imposed on everyone; it was never claimed to be a Torah obligation that blotted out the rest of our existence.

Indeed, Gedolim and tzaddikim would often tend to the sick when others were afraid to go near them. Some of them eventually became sick themselves and died; many did not. That is part of life, and sometimes that is how life ends. If it was someone's time to go, at least it was through helping another person and truly living, otherwise it would have happened a different way.

The notion that we must live in terror, our entire focus devoted to maximizing our chances for survival at the expense of actually living, was never entertained. That's not the Jewish way. It's insane.

Now we are told that unless we take an experimental "vaccine", which has already harmed many people, which tens of thousands of doctors without ties to the establishment and the big corporations have raised concerns about, whose long-term effects are entirely unknown, whose creators haven't even taken it under the ridiculous claim that your life comes first (since when?), and which in a best-case scenario will only reduce one's chance of getting a serious case of covid if he ever catches it at all...we are told that this "vaccine" is obligatory according to the Torah, even though the risks are real, the effects are unknown, and the benefits achievable in safer ways.

Under normal circumstances people would be extremely leery of this. But because everyone is terrified and hysterical, mentally worn down, desperate for any light at the end of the tunnel, they are lured by hype, propaganda, and assurances that it will all be fine.

This is also not the Jewish way. This is also insane.

A Jew who is paranoid, who lives in fear of unseen, entirely speculative dangers, is presumed to be a sinner (Berachos 60A). A Jew is supposed to fear sin – but he is not supposed to redefine normal human behavior as a sin so that he can justify being afraid. A Jew is supposed to fear God – but he is not supposed to claim that God wants him to live in fear of everyone and everything simply to prolong his existence in this world. God does not want this. It is insane.

When I made it known on social media that I was willing to shake hands, many people applauded, but others were outraged. Some people, including Jews who wear yarmulkas and sheitels, accused me of being a rodef. According to Jewish law, a rodef can be assassinated by anyone, without even a trial, to protect the lives of others. For stating that I was not afraid to shake the hand of a fellow Jew, I was accused in all seriousness of being a rodef.

This is not Judaism. It is utter insanity.

The Mishna in Shabbos (Chapter 2, Mishna 5) teaches that one may extinguish a candle on Shabbos for one of several reasons, including ruach ra'ah, an evil spirit. Rashi explains that this refers to someone who is tormented by what he sees around him, and when he is in darkness he is more comfortable. The Rambam elaborates that some people are tormented by normal human behavior and social company, and extinguishing the light gives them relief. It is such a serious condition that one may violate Shabbos.

My fellow Jews, this is the condition that has overtaken almost all of us. We are tormented by normal human behavior and social company, terrified that every breath or touch might kill us. This is not an appropriate reaction to a virus, even to a severe virus. It is a mental illness, and it is destroying us.

It is indeed remotely possible that shaking hands, kissing a Torah, going to work, opening a business, riding a bus, and other such basic human behaviors will indirectly be the cause of our death. However, according to the Torah we are not allowed to worry about such things – even during flu season, and even when there is a virus going around. It is plausible that if we refrain from such normal behaviors, extinguish the candles, and live in darkness that we will prolong our lives.

However, we must recognize that those who live like this are mentally ill. It is forbidden to impose mental illness on others. It is forbidden to declare that we must live with paranoia and hysteria for the sake of life. What life?

The vast majority of us have thankfully survived the last year. But something inside most people is dead.

May God help us wake up and bring the dead back to life.

__________________

www.chananyaweissman.com

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Re: COVID-19 (Wuhan Novel Coronavirus) Pandemic Master Thread
« Reply #3819 on: December 30, 2020, 04:33:22 PM »
@neveryou Seriously?