May Rush Limbaugh have a speedy recovery

[gozalim]

Rush inspires and instructs millions in age old Conservative values and makes liberals nuts. As frum Jews I bet we all agree that's a good thing.

Gonna bite. not for the sake of the OP but to call out something we may all fall victim to subtly.
Just because on many of today's hot-button issues one side's positions are more at odds with ours than the other, doesn't obviate the fact that at the same time on other issues Torah's position may be in the opposite direction.
remember the speech from the Monsey Rov following the attack?

perhaps we're in greater danger of overlooking the insidious influence of those who we sometimes agree with than by taking an occasional lesson from someone whose other values are so obviously far from our own.

I vomit a little in my mouth every time I hear some brilliant shul pundit spew "talk show wisdom" as if it's toras emes. read a book for crying out loud

[Shkop]

It's not about what you said. It's about what you said here, after what you said in other threads. You went on a ridicules rant about people singing the praises of a man who you believe isn't worth of it, and then roll on into this thread an begin your sermon with the topic being a controversial person. Starting to see what everyone else here is seeing?

Two completely different things.

Bryant is an (immoral) individual who doesn't deserve special praise due to his athletic capabilities. Nothing in the Torah makes an athlete better than anyone else in the world, despite the "inspiration". Kal vachomer if he is immoral.

Regarding Rush, I am sure we can all agree that he has argued for many Conservative ideals that are in concert with Torah values for decades to millions. These include being highly critical of abortion, supporting capital punishment, being critical of feminism, and more. The icing on the cake is how he irks liberals. How can we not differentiate between the two? And - ask your Daas Torah - but I wouldn't be surprised if many would agree that we should have him in mind in our tefilos.

[mmgfarb]

Two completely different things.

Bryant is an (immoral) individual who doesn't deserve special praise due to his athletic capabilities. Nothing in the Torah makes an athlete better than anyone else in the world, despite the "inspiration". Kal vachomer if he is immoral.

Regarding Rush, I am sure we can all agree that he has argued for many Conservative ideals that are in concert with Torah values for decades to millions. These include being highly critical of abortion, supporting capital punishment, being critical of feminism, and more. The icing on the cake is how he irks liberals. How can we not differentiate between the two? And - ask your Daas Torah - but I wouldn't be surprised if many would agree that we should have him in mind in our tefilos.

You're conflating your political views with Torah values, they're not the same thing. Besides for the fact that American conservative ideas are based on Christianity, not Judaism, think about that for a little while.

ETA: How the hell does irking liberals have anything to do with a Torah hashgafa? Just admit it, you like the guys' political views so you think he deserves your prayer for a speedy recovery. Stop trying to bring my Torah into your petty political battle.

ETA 2: Oh and btw, stop trying to speak on behalf of all frum jews, the rest of us appreciate it about as much as the rest of the "social" groups that get spoken on behalf of do.

[whYME]

...and makes liberals nuts. As frum Jews I bet we all agree that's a good thing.

[as2]

You're conflating your political views with Torah values, they're not the same thing. Besides for the fact that American conservative ideas are based on Christianity, not Judaism, think about that for a little while.

ETA: How the hell does irking liberals have anything to do with a Torah hashgafa? Just admit it, you like the guys' political views so you think he deserves your prayer for a speedy recovery. Stop trying to bring my Torah into your petty political battle.

ETA 2: Oh and btw, stop trying to speak on behalf of all frum jews, the rest of us appreciate it about as much as the rest of the "social" groups that get spoken on behalf of do.

Stole the words right out of my mouth.

[Shkop]

You're conflating your political views with Torah values, they're not the same thing.

I am referring to political views that are in sync with Torah values. For example, being anti-abortion and pro capital punishment.

Besides for the fact that American conservative ideas are based on Christianity, not Judaism, think about that for a little while.

They can be based on anything in the world. If they are in sync with Torah Judaic values then we support them.

[mmgfarb]

I am referring to political views that are in sync with Torah values. For example, being anti-abortion and pro capital punishment.

This is your opinion, don't forget that. The Torah tells us to value life, not necessarily that we should support government intervention in this regard. Same goes for capital punishment, the Torah teaches us to do everything in our power to save someone from getting put to death, we must value the fact that the US has a judicial system but we don't have to be blind to its many problems.

[as2]

Wow. Came up on my feed. Pathetic tweet, but the responses are worse. This is the problem with politics today (on all sides)


https://twitter.com/rezaaslan/status/1224472951967191040

[Shkop]

ETA: How the hell does irking liberals have anything to do with a Torah hashgafa?

No need to get worked up. Plenty of sources in Tanach and Talmud support that contention. Here's one:
עֹזְבֵ֣י ת֖וֹרָה יְהַֽלְל֣וּ רָשָׁ֑ע וְשֹׁמְרֵ֥י ת֜וֹרָ֗ה יִתְגָּ֥רוּ בָֽם

[mmgfarb]

They can be based on anything in the world. If they are in sync with Torah Judaic values then we support them.

Except for the fact that we usually differ when it comes to the minutia of what we support, abortion is a perfect example of this. Frum Jews in America nowadays are often blind to the fact that American "morality" stems from Christian values that don't line up perfectly with ours. That's not to say that Christian morality isn't necessarily a good thing in the western world, just that we don't define morality the same way.

[mmgfarb]

No need to get worked up. Plenty of sources in Tanach and Talmud support that contention. Here's one:
עֹזְבֵ֣י ת֖וֹרָה יְהַֽלְל֣וּ רָשָׁ֑ע וְשֹׁמְרֵ֥י ת֜וֹרָ֗ה יִתְגָּ֥רוּ בָֽם

Who died and made you arbiter of who is or isn't a rasha? Besides for the fact that calling Rush Limbaugh a "Shomer Torah" is about as ridiculous as calling Kobe Bryant one.

[Shkop]

This is your opinion, don't forget that. The Torah tells us to value life, not necessarily that we should support government intervention in this regard. Same goes for capital punishment, the Torah teaches us to do everything in our power to save someone from getting put to death, we must value the fact that the US has a judicial system but we don't have to be blind to its many problems.

I'm not sure where you are going with all of this. The Torah tells us very clearly that homicide deserves the death penalty.
And that wasn't directed to Jews. That was directed to Noach, the father of humanity.

[Shkop]

Who died and made you arbiter of who is or isn't a rasha? Besides for the fact that calling Rush Limbaugh a "Shomer Torah" is about as ridiculous as calling Kobe Bryant one.

No I wasn't calling him a Shomer Torah. I was merely backing up my argument that irking liberals is a plus.

[mmgfarb]

No I wasn't calling him a Shomer Torah. I was merely backing up my argument that irking liberals is a plus.

Only if you declare all liberals rashaim which is an asinine proposition on a good day and laughable idiocy on a bad one.

[as2]

No I wasn't calling him a Shomer Torah. I was merely backing up my argument that irking liberals is a plus.

So we're tossing vahavta l'reiacha kmocha? Or does opposing political views exempt them from receiving that treatment?

[Shkop]

Except for the fact that we usually differ when it comes to the minutia of what we support, abortion is a perfect example of this. Frum Jews in America nowadays are often blind to the fact that American "morality" stems from Christian values that don't line up perfectly with ours. That's not to say that Christian morality isn't necessarily a good thing in the western world, just that we don't define morality the same way.

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Rush is lecturing primarily to Christian people.
And he is doing good work.
May he have a refuah shleimah bikarov

[mmgfarb]

Perhaps. But keep in mind that Rush is lecturing primarily to Christian people.
And he is doing good work.
May he have a refuah shleimah bikarov

Ah, so this has nothing to do with the Torah, you just like the fact that he preaches good Christian values to other Christians?

[Shkop]

Only if you declare all liberals rashaim which is an asinine proposition on a good day and laughable idiocy on a bad one.

Its actually a logical assertion.
How are liberals not wicked in the eyes of the Torah?
I'd love to hear you explain this one.

[Shkop]

Ah, so this has nothing to do with the Torah, you just like the fact that he preaches good Christian values to other Christians?

Its about the fact that he argues for age old Conservative values which tend to side with Torah values much more than liberal ones that are completely on the other side.
It really isn't that complicated.

[whYME]

@CountValentine (I don't think you'll see this, but whatever) this is one of the threads to remember when you feel that you're the only one who ever gets "ganged up" on, and that us Jews will always protect one of our own even when he's wrong.