Author Topic: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread  (Read 247876 times)

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2240 on: August 26, 2020, 08:16:58 AM »
Everyone is so stupid!

"178,000 dead, how can anyone vote for Trump again" -every Dem on national TV

Guys, there was a worldwide pandemic! There were millions of casualties around the world! Trump is not a magician, and you stupid Dems have to stop making it as though he's a murderer for not stopping a pandemic from killing Americans!

He stopped travel from infected countries WAY before Dems would have, and he was attacked for that. He locked down the country less than 24 hours after he was advised to do so by Doctor Fauci. He refrained from pushing masks as long as the CDC said they didn't work (SO DID CUOMO and Dems, you Dem hypocrites).

Oh, so his attitude now is more along the lines of 'we have to leave certain choices up to people', so now he's a mass murderer??? He's not like Cuomo who made a policy which led DIRECTLY to the deaths of A MUCH HIGHER percentage of people than other states.

Sometimes people should just keep their mouths shut. Why open it when you reveal embarrassingly how partisan and dumb you are?

(Sorry for the rant, it's mainly being aimed at all those stupid Democrat pundits I'm heard this from the last few days.)
Well said.
I do wonder if biscotti is just another reincarnation of CM???

Offline biscotti

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2241 on: August 26, 2020, 11:06:19 AM »
Everyone is so stupid!

"178,000 dead, how can anyone vote for Trump again" -every Dem on national TV

Guys, there was a worldwide pandemic! There were millions of casualties around the world! Trump is not a magician, and you stupid Dems have to stop making it as though he's a murderer for not stopping a pandemic from killing Americans!
Do I really need to explain how much worse it has been in the US than other countries? This is pretty much undisputed. Public health experts and epidemiologists estimate 70-90% of the US deaths were preventable. Never called him a murderer, but I'd hope you'd agree that failing to prevent that many deaths is problematic.

He stopped travel from infected countries WAY before Dems would have, and he was attacked for that. He locked down the country less than 24 hours after he was advised to do so by Doctor Fauci.
Trump only banned travel from China for non-US citizens. 40,000 people flew in from China between February and April. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html

He refrained from pushing masks as long as the CDC said they didn't work (SO DID CUOMO and Dems, you Dem hypocrites).
I'm not here to praise Cuomo, but you are just factually wrong here. Cuomo issued a directive for all NYers to wear masks on April 15. Trump didn't publicly embrace mask-wearing until over three months later on July 21 (by which point 140,000 Americans had died). Even then he did so halfheartedly, and many people continue to cite to him in denying the efficacy of mask-wearing.

Oh, so his attitude now is more along the lines of 'we have to leave certain choices up to people', so now he's a mass murderer??? He's not like Cuomo who made a policy which led DIRECTLY to the deaths of A MUCH HIGHER percentage of people than other states.
I mean, there are countless examples of Trump's actions and failures to act, both in terms of receiving and ignoring evidence and expertise about the virus, and in terms of signaling toward local officials as to how they should approach the virus response in their states, that can be directly linked to outbreaks and deaths. Pandemic responses require the effective coordination of many agencies, and Trump was at the center of that, and he did not initiate, manage, or direct that coordination effectively. Great article here: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/

Sometimes people should just keep their mouths shut. Why open it when you reveal embarrassingly how partisan and dumb you are?
I would hope opening my mouth and revealing my stupidity would help you begin to see the mental gymnastics you need to perform to convince yourself Trump handled this crisis well. You need to create a version of yourself that doesn't trust epidemiologists, public health experts, and peer-reviewed studies. You need to identify others who failed and convince yourself that their failure means the person at the center of the national response is absolved of responsibility. You need to lie to yourself. In my experience these sorts of delusions are often motivated by partisanship. Enjoy what's on the other side of the leap you and much of the GOP have made from McCain and Romney's party to whatever the heck it is now.


Offline aygart

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2242 on: August 26, 2020, 11:20:20 AM »
Cuomo screwed up with a delayed response in NY
Delayed Response? That is the issue?!?!??!? The guy went and mandated the exposure of thousands of those most vulnerable and at the highest risk!
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline biscotti

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2243 on: August 26, 2020, 11:35:17 AM »
Delayed Response? That is the issue?!?!??!? The guy went and mandated the exposure of thousands of those most vulnerable and at the highest risk!

Of course, yes, that too!

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2244 on: August 26, 2020, 11:52:59 AM »
Why is it that every time someone points to Trump's mishandling of this pandemic as POTUS, everyone points to Cuomo? Mah shayach?
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2245 on: August 26, 2020, 11:54:24 AM »
Well said.
I do wonder if biscotti is just another reincarnation of CM???

Not unless each username comes with completely new personality and mannerisms.
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2246 on: August 26, 2020, 12:24:05 PM »
Why is it that every time someone points to Trump's mishandling of this pandemic as POTUS, everyone points to Cuomo? Mah shayach?
If you would watch some MSM and the DNC last week, you might understand.

Offline YitzyS

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2247 on: August 26, 2020, 12:38:53 PM »
Do I really need to explain how much worse it has been in the US than other countries? This is pretty much undisputed.
Please explain. I dispute it.

Public health experts and epidemiologists estimate 70-90% of the US deaths were preventable.
Right, preventable by Cuomo and his ilk.

Never called him a murderer, but I'd hope you'd agree that failing to prevent that many deaths is problematic.
Trump only banned travel from China for non-US citizens. 40,000 people flew in from China between February and April. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html
It is way more complicated to ban citizens from returning to their own country, as everyone understands. In any event, Biden shunned him for his ban.

I'm not here to praise Cuomo, but you are just factually wrong here. Cuomo issued a directive for all NYers to wear masks on April 15. Trump didn't publicly embrace mask-wearing until over three months later on July 21 (by which point 140,000 Americans had died).
"Issued a directive", "Publicly embrace" it. I like how you change the parameters to create the perfect narrative. You've got a talent for politics.

Even then he did so halfheartedly, and many people continue to cite to him in denying the efficacy of mask-wearing.
I mean, there are countless examples of Trump's actions and failures to act, both in terms of receiving and ignoring evidence and expertise about the virus, and in terms of signaling toward local officials as to how they should approach the virus response in their states, that can be directly linked to outbreaks and deaths. Pandemic responses require the effective coordination of many agencies, and Trump was at the center of that, and he did not initiate, manage, or direct that coordination effectively. Great article here: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/09/coronavirus-american-failure/614191/
I would hope opening my mouth and revealing my stupidity would help you begin to see the mental gymnastics you need to perform to convince yourself Trump handled this crisis well. You need to create a version of yourself that doesn't trust epidemiologists, public health experts, and peer-reviewed studies. You need to identify others who failed and convince yourself that their failure means the person at the center of the national response is absolved of responsibility. You need to lie to yourself. In my experience these sorts of delusions are often motivated by partisanship. Enjoy what's on the other side of the leap you and much of the GOP have made from McCain and Romney's party to whatever the heck it is now.
When a partisan poster yells about others being partisan, the only answer I feel like giving is "tl;dr"

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2248 on: August 26, 2020, 01:05:05 PM »
If you would watch some MSM and the DNC last week, you might understand.

I don't live under a rock. It's to be expected that the Dems will tout their false messiah, just as the R's anointed DeSantis back in April. In a few months, none of them will want to be caught dead within 100 miles of Cuomo. That doesn't change the stupidity of comparing Cuomo and Trump. They dealt (and are dealing) with completely different situations, with completely different responsibilities. And as far as I know, they aren't vying for the same position come November. It is entirely fair to hold Trump to a different standard as he faces reelection for President of the United States in the midst of an ongoing pandemic.
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2249 on: August 26, 2020, 01:15:08 PM »
Please explain. I dispute it.

Come on, now. Go ahead and try to make the argument that the US is doing better than any other developed nation. The numbers don't support it. We've had this argument on here before.

I was very vocal in arguments with CV back in March and April about how there were no politicians who were handling this any better than Trump. Since then, that argument can no longer be made. You can't shift the blame to the CDC when it has been documented how the administration has continuously influenced their directives. The mask fiasco is ongoing. The lack of leadership and guidance at a national level cannot be spun, unless you are such an advocate for state's rights that you believe the Federal Government shouldn't exist.

@biscotti didn't defend Cuomo. He made some valid points, and instead of addressing them, you deflected to Cuomo, Biden, Dems, etc. One partisan dismissing someone else's points because he's a partisan for the other side is the same thing you guys have been calling out CV for. You can't have it both ways.
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Offline aygart

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2250 on: August 26, 2020, 01:28:00 PM »
Come on, now. Go ahead and try to make the argument that the US is doing better than any other developed nation. The numbers don't support it. We've had this argument on here before.


He did not say that we did better. He disputed this.

Do I really need to explain how much worse it has been in the US than other countries? This is pretty much undisputed.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2251 on: August 26, 2020, 01:34:28 PM »
He did not say that we did better. He disputed this.

I wasn't clear. I didn't say make the argument that we did better than everyone else. I said "Go ahead and try to make the argument that the US is doing better than any other developed nation."
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2252 on: August 26, 2020, 02:48:46 PM »
In covid-related deaths per capita (which I believe is the MOST accurate barometer, as number of cases varies based on the amount of testing), the list is as follows (as per nCov2019.live)

Belgium - 862/million
Peru - 847/million
Spain - 620/million
UK - 610/million
Italy - 587/million
Sweden - 575/million
Chile - 574/million

And in 8th place:
US - 552/million

Go ahead. Say it again. Is US worse than every other country?

BTW, if you take all the Cuomo-related deaths out of the equation, I'm assuming the US would move further down the list.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2253 on: August 26, 2020, 03:09:52 PM »
In covid-related deaths per capita (which I believe is the MOST accurate barometer, as number of cases varies based on the amount of testing), the list is as follows (as per nCov2019.live)

Belgium - 862/million
Peru - 847/million
Spain - 620/million
UK - 610/million
Italy - 587/million
Sweden - 575/million
Chile - 574/million

And in 8th place:
US - 552/million

Go ahead. Say it again. Is US worse than every other country?

BTW, if you take all the Cuomo-related deaths out of the equation, I'm assuming the US would move further down the list.

Other than Peru and Chile, those other countries experienced most of their deaths in the early months and took corrective action to prevent further spread and deaths. The US, on the other hand, has done nothing on a national level to keep numbers down, and as a result, we have outperformed all those countries in cases, deaths, and deaths per capita over the last 3-4 months. If you want to hang your hat on the US being better than Peru and Chile, God bless you.
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Offline aygart

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2254 on: August 26, 2020, 03:12:06 PM »
Other than Peru and Chile, those other countries experienced most of their deaths in the early months and took corrective action to prevent further spread and deaths. The US, on the other hand, has done nothing on a national level to keep numbers down, and as a result, we have outperformed all those countries in cases, deaths, and deaths per capita over the last 3-4 months. If you want to hang your hat on the US being better than Peru and Chile, God bless you.
If you are basing on only later months then the bok is not yet written. That is called cherry picking data.
Feelings don't care about your facts

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2255 on: August 26, 2020, 03:26:50 PM »
If you are basing on only later months then the bok is not yet written. That is called cherry picking data.

I'm using the data to illustrate my point, not to close any books. The fact of the matter is, masks save lives. Social distancing saves lives. Keeping people out of indoor settings known for mass spread such as restaurants, bars, and clubs saves lives. Closing borders and restricting travel saves lives. Other countries took measures that we didn't. No country that was going through the same things we were dealing with back in March or April has sustained as much spread and death as we have since then.

The one measure we took in banning flights from China is the only thing people can point to when talking about things Trump did right. They justify his lack of action by pointing out that Pelosi lost her marbles when he did that, so how could you expect him to do more? If Pelosi being wrong is the standard by which we determine others being right, we've got to get better standards.

It's no coincidence that the anti-mask crowd largely wears MAGA hats. They are Trump's base, and he's done nothing to discourage them. It took him until the end of July to offer some lukewarm support for masks. We've had this argument a million times already. There is a great case for mismanagement by Democrats, and there is a great case for mismanagement by Republicans. No one else's mismanagement justifies Trump's actions, or lack thereof.
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Offline YitzyS

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2256 on: August 27, 2020, 07:01:19 AM »
Special for @CountValentine




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I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
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Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2258 on: August 27, 2020, 09:37:34 PM »
So Predictable: Pelosi says Biden shouldn't debate Trump: 'I wouldn't legitimize a conversation with him'

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Thursday that she doesn’t think Joe Biden should debate President Donald Trump in the three scheduled this fall ahead of the election because she said Trump will “probably act in a way that is beneath the dignity of the presidency.”

Pelosi volunteered her opinion at a weekly news conference at the Capitol during which she also said that if Biden wins the White House and Democrats retain control of the House, they will have the ability to expose Trump’s tax returns that he has refused for years to release, and they will unilaterally do it and release President Donald Trump’s long-hidden tax returns.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #2259 on: August 31, 2020, 02:22:53 PM »
I've been waiting over 5 years with bated breath for someone to say that!
-- Dan