Author Topic: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread  (Read 243285 times)

Offline CountValentine

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1520 on: August 02, 2020, 10:04:24 AM »
The author shows how he sees Torah values aligning with the Republican Party on most issues. That you see Kool-Aid in anything remotely supporting the Republicans shows your bias.
I have no problem showing the Torah values aligning with the R's on most issues. I might not agree but have no issue.

Now if you can't see the person drinking the Kool-Aid not much I can do in that case but...

"When the present occupant of the White House, whom we all know has no shortage of flaws and failings, ran against someone who, along with her husband as 42nd president, was party to more scandals – including countless improprieties of a criminal nature far surpassing anything of which the current president has been seriously accused, literally rivaling the most notorious mobsters..."
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1521 on: August 02, 2020, 10:11:13 AM »
The author shows how he sees Torah values aligning with the Republican Party on most issues.

No, he says that no party's values align with ours, so we should just vote based on practical considerations.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1522 on: August 02, 2020, 10:13:16 AM »
No, he says that no party's values align with ours, so we should just vote based on practical considerations.
Are you talking about the open letter or the response to it?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1523 on: August 02, 2020, 10:19:20 AM »
No, he says that no party's values align with ours, so we should just vote based on practical considerations.

Re-read the article. He clearly states his opinion on why the Republican Party's current values align more with what he feels the values of the Orthodox Jewish voters should be. He justifies voting for Trump by saying we should follow our mesorah, which is to ignore the messenger and focus those practical considerations.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 10:23:37 AM by Lurker »
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1524 on: August 02, 2020, 10:20:11 AM »
Re-read the article. He clearly states his opinion on why the Republican Party's current values align more with what he feels the values of the Orthodox Jewish voters should be. He justifies voting for Trump by saying we should follow our menorah, which is to ignore the messenger and focus those practical considerations.
Are you talking about the open letter or the response to it?
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Offline Lurker

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1525 on: August 02, 2020, 10:22:14 AM »
I have no problem showing the Torah values aligning with the R's on most issues. I might not agree but have no issue.

Now if you can't see the person drinking the Kool-Aid not much I can do in that case but...

"When the present occupant of the White House, whom we all know has no shortage of flaws and failings, ran against someone who, along with her husband as 42nd president, was party to more scandals – including countless improprieties of a criminal nature far surpassing anything of which the current president has been seriously accused, literally rivaling the most notorious mobsters..."

You didn't vote for her for more or less those same reasons. He's just using that to illustrate his point that we can't vote for people, because then we'd never vote. I don't see how pointing out the Clintons' House of Cards level of shadiness is drinking the Kool-Aid.
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Offline CountValentine

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1527 on: August 02, 2020, 10:25:41 AM »
The response.
I going to guess @zh cohen is talking about the open letter.

Open letter = Correct view
Response = Kool-Aid view  ;)
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1528 on: August 02, 2020, 10:28:07 AM »
You didn't vote for her for more or less those same reasons. He's just using that to illustrate his point that we can't vote for people, because then we'd never vote. I don't see how pointing out the Clintons' House of Cards level of shadiness is drinking the Kool-Aid.
The way he slants it is drinking the Kool-Aid. The same is true slanting Trump as a Nazi.
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1529 on: August 02, 2020, 10:30:58 AM »
The way he slants it is drinking the Kool-Aid. The same is true slanting Trump as a Nazi.

He didn't slant anything. He doesn't defend Trump the person. He says all politicians are varying degrees of bad, so ignore the messenger and look at the practical implications of the policies they will be pushing.

I think it's time for you to define in precise detail what it is you mean when you say "drinking the Kool-Aid."
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1530 on: August 02, 2020, 10:35:23 AM »
He didn't slant anything.
So you believe this "literally rivaling the most notorious mobsters"
Come on, man!  :)
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1531 on: August 02, 2020, 10:38:31 AM »
Question of the day.
On a purely moral and ethical standard who is worse, Trump or HRC, Trump or Biden?
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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1532 on: August 02, 2020, 10:40:08 AM »
So you believe this "literally rivaling the most notorious mobsters"
Come on, man!  :)

I think politicians are worse than mobsters.
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Offline zh cohen

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1533 on: August 02, 2020, 10:41:18 AM »
I going to guess @zh cohen is talking about the open letter.
Wrong


Open letter = Correct view
Response = Kool-Aid view  ;)

Wrong

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1534 on: August 02, 2020, 10:50:10 AM »
Wrong

Wrong
Then you need to reread the open letter and response.  :)
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Offline aygart

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1535 on: August 02, 2020, 11:48:15 AM »
He didn't slant anything. He doesn't defend Trump the person. He says all politicians are varying degrees of bad, so ignore the messenger and look at the practical implications of the policies they will be pushing.

I think it's time for you to define in precise detail what it is you mean when you say "drinking the Kool-Aid."
Which is exactly what many here have been saying over and over again. This has been the way Jews have viewed politicians and rulers for thousands of years.
Feelings don't care about your facts

Offline Kobe Bryant

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1536 on: August 02, 2020, 11:51:49 AM »

I think it's time for you to define in precise detail what it is you mean when you say "drinking the Kool-Aid."
Is "Kool-Aid drinkers" the new "Basket of deplorables"?
Here is the precise definition.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1537 on: August 02, 2020, 11:56:55 AM »
He didn't slant anything. He doesn't defend Trump the person. He says all politicians are varying degrees of bad, so ignore the messenger and look at the practical implications of the policies they will be pushing.
Which is exactly what many here have been saying over and over again. This has been the way Jews have viewed politicians and rulers for thousands of years.
As Frum Jews we don't replace religion with government and we don't view our politicians (or athletes, for that matter) as arbiters of moral values, they are nothing more than the sum of their policies.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1538 on: August 02, 2020, 12:18:59 PM »


I have no problem showing the Torah values aligning with the R's on most issues. I might not agree but have no issue.

Now if you can't see the person drinking the Kool-Aid not much I can do in that case but...

"When the present occupant of the White House, whom we all know has no shortage of flaws and failings, ran against someone who, along with her husband as 42nd president, was party to more scandals – including countless improprieties of a criminal nature far surpassing anything of which the current president has been seriously accused, literally rivaling the most notorious mobsters..."

Agree that paragraph was over the top

He says all politicians are varying degrees of bad, so ignore the messenger and look at the practical implications of the policies they will be pushing.

Agree with this as well. I think in principle so do the open letter writers. The dispute is in the application.
I think Trump is an immoral jerk who messed up on the response to covid. His administration has had policies which were overall favorable to our community.

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Re: US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread
« Reply #1539 on: August 02, 2020, 12:22:42 PM »
Here is the precise definition.
It is much simpler than that. It is a tool to avoid giving a real response.
Feelings don't care about your facts