US Politics/2020 Election Pick Your Poison Master Thread

[CountValentine]

Yes, and I must say that I am not at all surprised at the ignorance (or is it bigotry?) your question reveals.

I don't see Jewish orthodox women as independent as women from say a big city. Is that ignorance, stereotype, bigotry or fact?

[CountValentine]

3. No "flaming" or instigating personal attacks on other members, constructive criticism only!

I am ignorant to more things I care to mention and don't mind it being pointed out when true.

[YitzyS]

I don't see Jewish orthodox women as independent as women from say a big city. Is that ignorance, stereotype, bigotry or fact?

There are some, but I would think it's fact that there are not nearly as many.

[YitzyS]

I am ignorant to more things I care to mention and don't mind it being pointed out when true.

Politics 

[CountValentine]

Politics 

Strike one.

[zh cohen]

I don't see Jewish orthodox women as independent as women from say a big city. Is that ignorance, stereotype, bigotry or fact?

AB and C. Unless I am misunderstanding what you mean when you say "independent"

[zh cohen]

It will be funny to watch the MSM say Trump is promoting voter fraud though

I guess they decided to go with a different argument...
https://twitter.com/LtGovHochulNY/status/1295721863340077082

[Lurker]

Men and women are different. For some reason some men look at strong independent woman differently. Some men would be afraid to marry one. Do you see a lot of strong independent women in your community?

There's so much stereotyping going on here... First of all, yes, there are many strong and independent women in the Orthodox Jewish communities. I don't know that their independence or their strength is always paraded and showcased for the public, but that is because there are other virtues, such as self-confidence or modesty, that make peacocking unnecessary. Second, those virtues are not mutually dependent. Third, not all virtues are universal. Our diversity as humans is invaluable. To make generalizations about which virtues make someone worthy of being put on a pedestal does a great disservice to others who were given a different, yet essential, disposition. I don't understand this obsession with "strong, independent women."

[aygart]

I don't understand this obsession with "strong, independent women."

That is part of his stereotyping.

[Jellybelly]

How do you define educated?

Very differently than most people here

[CountValentine]

Lets see if I have this right. I asked the question. I member answers: There are some, but I would think it's fact that there are not nearly as many.

I get jumped on for asking the question but the answer given not a peep. Should I take that as the answer given was correct?

[CountValentine]

I don't know that their independence or their strength is always paraded and showcased for the public...

If the public doesn't see it then how would they know?

[Lurker]

Lets see if I have this right. I asked the question. I member answers: There are some, but I would think it's fact that there are not nearly as many.

I get jumped on for asking the question but the answer given not a peep. Should I take that as the answer given was correct?

Who jumped on you for asking the question? I'm still waiting for an answer for why you think Kamala Harris is strong and independent, what that has to do with being a black woman, and why any of those 4 things matter when deciding who to vote for in November.

The answer given was an opinion. It was not correct, nor was it incorrect. It was a generalization that, in my opinion (and my opinion only), was too broad and therefore not entirely accurate. It is accurate to say that the Orthodox Jewish communities as a whole put less value on the virtue of "independence" than the secular world. I think that you'll find many religious communities of other faiths with similar values in that regard.

[Lurker]

If the public doesn't see it then how would they know?

Why do they need to know? What is the value in the public knowing?

[yungermanchik]

Lets see if I have this right. I asked the question. I member answers: There are some, but I would think it's fact that there are not nearly as many.

I get jumped on for asking the question but the answer given not a peep. Should I take that as the answer given was correct?

Ok, I'll explain: when that member said:

There are some, but I would think it's fact that there are not nearly as many.

It was after he already said:

I can speak for myself, as my perception doesn't necessarily represent that of others within my community.

There are many strong women in the community. Strong in the sense that they stick to their convictions and morals, and will not back down or get intimidated.

Independent is not considered a virtue the way I see it, however, it is not necessarily a minus either. A Jewish couple is supposed to be a team, with each spouse helping the other achieve their goals. It is not considered a fault if one spouse is dependent on the other, and that being so, not many women are driven to accentuate their independence.

That's my perception.

which made it clear that he did not consider not being independent to be a negative.
Whereas, when you asked:

Do you see a lot of strong independent women in your community?

It had been clear already that you consider that to be a positive, and the implication was that "our community(s)" are lacking.

[CountValentine]

It is accurate to say that the Orthodox Jewish communities as a whole put less value on the virtue of "independence" than the secular world.

Then wouldn't it make sense they would be less independent?

[Lurker]

Then wouldn't it make sense they would be less independent?

No. It just means that we don't glorify the independence. I'ts not that the virtue isn't as prevalent as in the rest of the world, it's just not celebrated.

[CountValentine]

Whereas, when you asked:It had been clear already that you consider that to be a positive, and the implication was that "our community(s)" are lacking.

Totally unfair. You assumed like you always do.

[CountValentine]

No. It just means that we don't glorify the independence. I'ts not that the virtue isn't as prevalent as in the rest of the world, it's just not celebrated.

So you don't celebrate it and the outside world doesn't see it. Wouldn't it be logical for the outside world to come to the conclusion that there is less independence?

[yungermanchik]

Then wouldn't it make sense they would be less independent?

The "attacks" were when you lumped strong together with independent. Once you asked it separately, the same member who "attacked" you answered very civilly.